Ep 216. - Dividing Syria: The Weaponization of Sectarianism with Hussam Ayloush
There has been what can only be described as an intense disinformation campaign in recent days regarding Syria. If we were to believe it, there exists an unholy alliance of the American right, Assadists, Iranian propagandists, and Russian trolls who argue the new Syrian government is intent on eradicating minorities in the western coastal cities and towns of Syria. Much of this has been driven by naked propaganda to undermine the new liberated Syria. However, is there any truth in the claims that civilians have been caught up and perhaps even targeted in reprisals as forces attempt to deal with a pro-Assad insurgency? And how should we understand the demands of Israel, which has suddenly become the protectors of the Druze in the south? Are we poised to see sectarianism used as an excuse to destabilise the new Syria?
To assist us in untangling fact from fiction, we have Hussam Ayloush on the show. He is the CEO of the California chapter Cair (Council on American Islamic Relations) and hails from Damascus, Syria.
You can find Hussam Ayloush here:
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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
0:00
there's a lot of noise out there a lot of misinformation now the remnants of the regime started organizing they were the ones who were involved in the mass murder of people close to
0:09
400 people killed by the remnants after 54 years of one of the most sectarian eras in Syria's
0:16
history some people are in pain some people have lost everything they're learning that they can't blame a whole entire Community for that Iran knew andah knew what Assad was committing in
0:26
Syria asalam Al now before we begin I'd like to ask all viewers who cherish this podcast and wish
0:34
to see it continue and expand to support us by making a monthly contribution with as little as
0:40
1010 p a month we can develop this podcast into a multihost multicountry media project simply
0:46
head over to thinking muslim.com membership and inshallah tala become a member may Allah
0:52
subhana T accept your contributions there has been what can only be described as an intense
0:57
disinformation campaign in recent days regarding Syria if we were to believe it there exists an
1:03
Unholy Alliance of the American right assadist Iranian propagandists and Russian trolls who
1:09
argue that the new Syrian government is intent on eradicating minorities in the western coastal
1:15
cities and towns of Syria much of this has been driven by naked propaganda to undermine the new
1:21
liberated Syria however is there any truth to the claims that civilians have been caught up
1:27
in perhaps even targeted in risal as forces attempt to deal with a pro-assad Insurgency
1:36
and how should we understand the demands of Israel which has suddenly become the Protectors of the Drews iners South are we poised to see sectarianism used as an excuse to destabilize for
1:48
new Syria now to assist us in untangling fact from fiction we have husam Alou on the show he is the
1:55
CEO of the California chapter of Care Council on American Islamic relation and hails from Damascus
2:02
Syria and welcome to the thinking Muslim honor to be on the show well it's lovely to have you with us uh husam and it's been a worrying
2:15
week week and a half and uh I really want to get your understanding of what happened on the ground
2:21
in Syria as well as your analysis of the uh future of of uh what we uh very hopefully look at as the
2:29
Syrian Revolution so let's begin with the events of two Fridays ago where maybe hundreds of people
Government intervention
2:34
including government troops uh were killed uh in the east of the country um take us through
2:42
the events what led to the government the new interim government to intervene in Latakia and
2:49
Tartus well to put things in perspective first of all when the new government uh took over it
2:55
had issued amnesty uh to all those who were part of the regime and asking them to sign up uh with
3:02
the various uh locations in throughout the country giving them no some kind of amnesty so they won't
3:08
be so they would be able to move around the country and the city asking them not to leave
3:13
the country because there is Transitional Justice that is expected basically you know
3:18
keeping in mind there were hundreds of thousands of who served in the various regimes intelligence
3:24
agencies and and Military agencies that they were involved in The Killing torturing abusing of Sy
3:30
it's going to be impossible to punish each one of them there must be some we have to choose syrians have to choose basically those who were the the leading figures the leading individuals
3:41
uh conducting and executing the killing and the mass torture those are the people who are going to
3:46
be targeted now those are the people who were not happy because they were afraid that they will be singled out so they've started regrouping secretly in various areas especially in the strongholds of
3:58
the regime areas uh in the coastal North the north part of Syria in the coast Coastal area this is
4:05
where a majority of the alawi population lives in Syria which the regime traces its trots from
4:12
and and and used uh that Community I think used and abused that Community to stay in power uh now
4:18
the remnants of the regime started organizing because they knew the amnesty eventually is is
4:24
not going to spare them because they were the ones who uh were involved in the mass murder
4:29
of people we're talking about whether the use of chemical weapons or the mass torture in Sadaya in
4:36
MZ massacr in various in hola in various cities and Villages so they were waiting
4:43
for the right moment and then what happened to Fridays ago they launched a coordinated attack
4:50
on the various checkpoints and locations where the Syrian government units whether it's mostly police
4:57
actually this is not the army mostly police and security units around Latakia and tus the
5:04
two main cities and a lot of villages in between you know this is the coastal area killing dozens
5:10
and dozens uh summerly executed uh you know there videos of those and now were finding Mass graves
5:17
in Syria with with uh dozens of these Security Forces killed at that moment uh almost it was
5:24
alarming uh the news of dead uh soldiers and and security forces started spreading around
5:31
Syria and and in addition to that actually there are reports coming out over the last uh few days
5:37
that that also includes dozens of civilians some are of the Sunni background who because this is
5:44
also mixed areas this is not just fully Sunni fully alawi and some alawi who were known to be
5:50
uh critical of the Assad regime and the remnants also so we're talking about probably close to 400
5:56
people uh killed uh from from from by the remnants uh and then by by the time the news reached uh the
6:05
northern part of Syria where the Hub uh uh of the what used to be the rebels forces are you
6:12
know in in the idlib area tanaz area you know all the Northern Area the halb area the suburbs
6:18
of halab uh almost like there was an appeal for people to come to go and provide support for the
6:24
security you're talking about uh hundreds of thousands of people Gathering and maybe tens
6:30
of thousands of them entering the area now these are not the organized units of the military these
6:35
are not the ones that were added to the military recently these were disbanded kind of units but
6:42
still had their weapons so they they joined in uh and for the most part were able to push back
6:48
against the remnants the Assad remnants into the villages uh unfortunately the news came out also
6:54
that uh uh some civilians were targeted uh as in a in a retaliation mode that is completely
7:01
unjustified uh the the good news is things are contained because it's not in anybody's interest
7:08
let alone this is uh terrific and and horrible you know to uh to hear about civilians whether
7:15
sunnis or alawis or any side you know a civilian is a civilian but also it's also destabilizing for
7:21
Syria and Syria doesn't need that you know syrians had 54 years of of instability of
7:27
dictatorship of repression and T tyranny uh they will not accept you know syrians uh definitely the
7:34
supporters of the Revolution the supporters of the current government have made it very clear unequivocally that those responsible uh do not represent the government or the Syrian people
Donate to Baitulmaal
8:20
thanks for B Mal to build our school to give us the hope today is the first day
8:26
in the school and thanks so much to make us to continue to do new sust um ham how do we untangle fact from fiction here um you talk about a Consortium of Rebel
Misinformation
8:48
groups uh who uh came to the aid of the Revolution the aid of the government and uh uh some of his
8:56
groups uh indulged in or in were were involved with um summary executions and and um but we we
9:05
also know that uh the internet is a wash with claims of mass executions um many of these uh
9:13
claims come from pro-russian pro-iranian accounts uh some of them utilize even uh videos from uh the
9:21
old assard period of of atrocities um so how do we know that um some of these groups did engage
9:29
actually in the execution of civilians and how do we know the extent to which uh these uh these
9:36
crimes were undertaken I would say the full extent of what happened is is not yet known but we have a
9:43
general I mean there are various general idea there are various human rights organizations with a good track record of being very accurate uh being underground well connected and neutral
9:53
or I would say not neutral objective at least and you know for the last 14 years they've done that
9:59
tracked crimes committed by the Assad regime which obviously a regime that has killed over a million
10:05
people and also violations and and and any abuses committed by various Rebel groups over the past
10:13
14 years so this Syrian Network for human rights uh has has documented by speaking to people on
10:21
the ground families who lost loved ones and using their observers so their numbers uh basically as I
10:27
said almost like 400 killed by uh the the remnants the Assad remnants that includes both uh security
10:35
forces and civilians and almost again similar number 390 or so uh from the alawi side and
10:43
that includes civilians and also fires who were not dressed in in military fatigues in general so
10:51
would we know the exact facts considering there's a lot of noise out there a lot of misinformation it's a misinformation campaign and it's a very deliberate because you know it's one
11:00
thing to repeat uh rumors it's another thing to be actually using fabricated videos as you said
11:06
some of it from Russian soldiers or Russian from the Russia Ukraine war I've seen I've seen ones
11:12
from uh images that we've seen six seven eight years ago from is Syrian soldiers uh committing
11:20
torture and and and murder execution of Syrian civilians who were deemed to be in support of
11:27
the uh Revolution at that time uh I've seen videos from Gaza of of children killed by the
11:34
Israelis and then also you know being claimed falsely claimed as part of what happened there
11:40
U you know there there are you know two things I want to say one on one hand there is a deliberate
11:46
campaign by people who never cared about the human rights of syrians ever like for the last 14 years
11:53
these are people who actually denied the crimes of the Assad regime denied the victims uh uh of of
11:59
chemical weapons of their Humanity they denied there there are torture centers there are Sadaya
12:05
there tadmur prisons they denied everything and and blamed syrians as you know labeled
12:10
syrians as some Israeli agents or agents of of some International Force to un undermine uh the
12:18
amazing uh pro-arab prop Palestinian Assad regime of course a big line so these people have always
12:25
been silent and have been very unhappy to see with the of events in Syria in terms of syrians finally
12:32
being free and setting up themselves on the path of of democracy and a free Syria for all syrians
12:39
but also this is not only the pro-assad people you also have the pro Russia pro-iran as you mentioned
12:45
but also the pro-israeli uh agenda there even you know the the irony of things uh pro- Israelis pro-
12:54
Iranians uh uh you know activists are sharing exactly the same videos and the the same claims
13:01
at a time uh when Syria needs actually uh people helping uh with the stability so that is one thing
13:07
to keep in mind the second thing to keep in mind also is whether it's one or 200 or 250 it's not
13:16
acceptable like and and and and and let's make it clear the Syrian government itself the interim
13:21
president uh uh Mr sharah himself has said has admitted that violations abuses were committed
13:29
uh and has committed to establishing a committee made up of trusted people in Syria with human
13:35
rights understanding that will track will assess what happened will interview people on the ground
13:41
and has committed to holding people who are responsible for that uh responsible accountable
13:46
for it whether it's the remnants uh who are being uh tracked down as we speak because they continue
13:54
with their attacks on the current government uh uh sites and checkpoints uh you know and and and
14:00
creating fear even among the alawite community by scaring them by intimidating them uh forbidding
14:08
them from engaging with the government the majority of people as we've you know we've seen in videos in meetings they they want to have peace they want to move on they they understand
14:18
this was a bad era the Assad regime and it's over now let's move on the remnants still have a lot of
14:24
their weapons a lot of the money and they know they will be held accountable so they want to
14:30
drag everybody into their own Civil War so with that I'm confident uh that there is a consensus
14:37
from the government from people uh uh that this should not happen and and those responsible for
14:43
should not be allowed to derail serious path uh to stability and democracy now we've known for
Al-Sharaa anti-Sectarianism?
14:50
some time that y's heel of uh the Ahmed shar's government is the Spectre of sectarianism and
14:58
uh in West there are many commentators who have jumped on the events of of two Fridays back and
15:05
uh argue that uh Ahmed Asar is is really using this opportunity to expunge certain sectarian
15:13
groups in particular the alawites uh from uh from sections of the of the country how convinced are
15:21
you that Ahmed Asar is anti- sectarian and and indeed that his government forces were not behind
15:29
any of these violations only Allah knows what's in people's heart we can judge by what we hear
15:34
what we see on the ground and everything we've seen and heard so far is very promising uh it's
15:41
promising and also it's if we couple that and and with the reality the practicality of what is in
15:47
the interest of Ahmed shar's government and the future of Syria everything would lead us towards
15:54
a direction that sectarianism is not acceptable is not good uh so I would say a context to put
16:02
there because changing people's views is not going to be easy the goal is to change practices to set
16:11
rules while people use change after 54 years of one of the most sectarian eras in Syria's
16:18
history where the Assad regime exploited his own Community the the alawi community the Ala
16:25
White Community by placing them almost exclusive exclusively in every High position in the Army
16:31
in the military in the intelligence uh in the torture centers uh and then pitting the various
16:37
ethnicities and religious communities within Syria against each other by creating fear that's how you
16:44
know divide and conquer div divide and rule that was the Assad ability to rule for 50 years plus
16:50
55 years almost by making Christians afraid of sunnis and telling the alais if the sunnis come
16:56
to power they're gonna Slaughter you and telling the Drews and the Shia and so on and so forth uh
17:02
you know syrians are waking up to the fact that this is not true syrians have lived together in harmony yeah they have differences like any other place in the world people have difference even
17:11
within the same family forget about the religious differences it's it's normal people adapt adjust
17:16
and find ways to to work on the common good but after 54 years I can tell you many Minds
17:23
in Syria are poisoned now out of fear out of intimidation or I would also say out of pain
17:29
you know if you're from hamah where 40,000 people were killed by the Assad the father in 1982 for
17:37
refusing for daring to challenge his his regime or saying no uh mostly in the most starian way
17:44
you know the the massacre was committed in very sectarian ways you know seeking people who are
17:49
imams religious people who ladies in hijab making sure as you were being tortured to know that the
17:56
one who's killing you and torturing you is a is a aloi and so on if you talk about Villages complete
18:02
Villages you know families were wiped out kids were stabbed to death in ways where the Assad
18:09
regime used uh these uh I would say uh militia men from his you know not just the military from
18:16
from the various aloi towns but the reality is if you visit aloi towns and areas in Syria they're
18:24
imp impoverished they're not they're they're struggling too because the regime wanted to
18:30
keep them poor so he can exploit them and exploit their need so I would say everybody is a victim
18:36
there's no debate over the past 54 years the top the main victims of the Assad brutality had been
18:42
the sunnis of Syria but I would also say other minorities pay the price especially those brave
18:48
ones who Dar stand up especially among the alawi communi so what I'm what I'm alluding to what I'm
18:54
saying is yes there are a lot of angry people and we saw that happen to fray ago when people
18:59
heard the news about their loved ones you know yes the overwhelming majority did not break rules did
19:05
not commit murder did not commit violations but all it takes is a dozen people committing to do
19:11
to do that to get things out of hand fortunately this time it was uh uh contained and I hope uh
19:19
by going through some reconciliation process in in Syria where uh syrians get to know each other
19:26
again not as religious or ethnic minorities but as as as people sharing a land and a history and
19:33
a future together uh from what what I'm seeing on social media what I'm hearing on the ground
19:38
from people it's actually very promising I think syrians want to put this era behind them sunnis
19:45
uh they they they they want to see and meet with with with other segments of the of the of Syria we
19:52
because many of them were part of that Revolution success and victory it wasn't the majority of the
19:57
victims were sunnis no debate almost all people who were refugees and living in tents were Sunni
20:03
and I don't say that to be sectarian but I I say that to say it's going to be harder you know it's
20:09
G it's going to take some work I want to be realistic some people are in pain some people have lost everything loved ones property and and and they know who did that to them but they're
20:19
learning that they can't blame a whole entire Community for that they are bad people they were sunnis who served the regime they are sunnis the Muti of Syria hassun was was the one issuing
20:30
fatwas for the regime to to to drop bual bombs on on on on people and and and making comments about
20:37
Assad's militias you know praising them and all of that and there were others not going to get into names but there were many sunnis Christians Drews who were part of the regime uh and and syrians
20:48
need to be reminded of that so they can move on and move forward towards what's best for all
20:54
of them as syrians brother Hassam can I ask you about the insurgence uh how effective uh is this
Insurgency effective?
21:01
Insurgency has it been contained and uh is there any IND indication that outside Powers uh may be
21:09
at play uh in feeding uh this this uh Insurrection there there has been some information showing that
21:18
at least let me start with the insur Insurgency has been ineffective hamdulillah thank God for
21:23
that because it does not have popular support it doesn't have the the the support from the base the
21:30
aloi areas actually we've seen them on the street along with the rest uh of of of the people of
21:36
Latakia and tortus that could change because the economy is hitting everybody hard uh because there
21:44
are still sanctions uh economic difficulties uh much of Syria was destroyed by Assad he destroyed
21:51
it to stay in in stay in power those who supported Assad whether it's the Iranian government or the Russian government supported his military uh uh actions against syrians they didn't support the
22:03
economy they didn't build schools universities so it's almost like starting from below zero to
22:08
restart so in the meanwhile um the Assad remnants you know whether it's the Assad family or the
22:14
other Generals in his army left with billions of dollars much of the of Syria's wealth was taken
22:21
with them now when you have people who are poor with less economic means it becomes easier to
22:29
recruit people play on their anger play on their feeling of being marginalized and the the reality
22:35
is everybody suffering uh but I can tell you in most of Syria people are saying we are willing
22:42
to live with no electricity no jobs little food until things get better because we don't want to
22:48
go back to what we had to deal with for 54 years and if you actually add the bath party it will be
22:55
over 60 years since the the bath party took over first uh I don't know if that is uh the the same
23:02
feeling and sentiment among a majority of people in the castal area My worry is many people are
23:09
hopeful and they want to be part of that change but those remnants with a lot of money uh can play
23:15
into people's feelings uh uh you know feeling of being marginalized feeling hey where where are the jobs there are no electricity Etc so it's going to take extra effort from NOS uh in Syria to
23:30
continue the dialogue along with with the various diverse segments of Syria's uh population but also
23:37
from the government itself to make sure that it focuses on the heads of of assets uh system and
23:44
infrastructure not on every member because the reality is if you are a young alawi man from a
23:51
village uh that might might have been your only source of income you might have been recruited you
23:57
might have been forced to to torture and and abuse I feel reconciliation is going to require focusing
24:04
on the heads of the abuse and the murder not on the uh you know the the lay people who just were
24:11
used for for that for that kidding so I I hope Iran uh rethinks its policy in the region Iran's
24:21
policy's policy in the region um before I get to Russia Iran and's role in the that region had been
24:29
very detrimental not only to syrians and Lebanese but I think to uh to internal Muslim relations you
24:38
know Iran's action in Syria supporting a dictator that they knew was a dictator involved there's no
24:45
debate Iran knew and hisbah knew what Assad was committing in Syria but they decided to go with
24:52
the political experienc of keeping an ally and a friend in power while knowing he was acting like
24:58
sh that the Iranian Revolution overthrew because of his repression that hypocrisy in my opinion
25:05
fueled uh sectarianism in the region in a way we haven't seen in decades and it's going to take a
25:13
long time to fix that problem and honestly it should start it will begin with Iran Iranian
25:19
government the Iranian government issuing an apology to the Syrian people and I mean it I
25:24
don't I don't say it as like it's about subduing or humiliating but if if they are sincere in
25:29
seeing stability in the region because as we watch what happened you know with the conflict with
25:35
Israel no muslim no human being no person with a fair mind would be celebrating or watching as
25:42
Israel destroys villages in in in in in Lebanon and kills innocent people whether they're sh or
25:48
others nobody celebrates but the I can tell you the level of sympathy was at its lowest nobody
25:55
celebrated or cheered for what is for the crimes Israel has committing because those are crimes regardless of the victim but the sympathy that existed in 2011 for in 2008 for example when when
26:08
Israel attacked South Lebanon the Syrian people welcomed people from the south of Lebanon in their
26:14
own homes there were no tents no tent cities anywhere in Syria syrians felt it's a dishonor
26:21
it's a shame to have a tent on their own country said you stay with us and W I know people Allah is
26:27
my witness I know people who went and lived with their family members with their brothers or their parents to clear their homes in in zabadani areas to have people from the south of Lebanon live in
26:38
their homes until things settle down when Israel attacked the sad part is these same areas zabadani
26:46
madaya were destroyed and the people of those areas were slaughtered by hisbah militias in 2013
26:56
and 2014 so there's a lot of pain in that region and I I I I don't speak from a sarian perspective
27:04
I speak from what I objectively see it was caused by the bad decision made by the Iranian government
27:12
and it owes its people because I think it betrayed its own people but it also owes the Syrian people
27:17
the victim of that bad policy a major apology and a commitment not to continue to get back and
27:23
interfere in the Syrian Affairs in any detrimental way if anything it should say we are not uh uh in
27:31
support of this Insurgency we are here to wait and see the new government establish peace stability
27:37
in Syria and we wish the Syrian people all the best because they will find if they were sincere
27:43
they those same Syrian people would be the best allies for the entire people of the re region
27:49
including the Iranian people because the Syrian people would always for the majority stand for
27:55
what is right for justice because they're part of that region they're not going to ever be against that region yeah um on that point of Iran I mean we've we've uh tackled Syria for the last uh few
Iran’s role in Syria
28:07
months and for for for last year in fact we've had a number of shows on Syria and Iran has come up
28:14
as a as a particular challenge for the region and challenge for for syrians um whenever uh we hold a
28:22
show and I think uh we'll find the same with with today's conversation a number of Iranians and and
28:28
those who are sympathetic to the Iranian position would argue that Iran's role has been exaggerated
28:35
uh in in Syria its detrimental role and Iran was fighting Isis or alqa and Iran did not engage in
28:43
the type of um civilian Slaughter that some claim uh they uh were indulging in I mean you
28:52
know how how credible do you think that argument is because I think in the Iranian population at
28:58
LGE uh there is this very clear understanding that Iran played a benign role really in Syria
29:05
I would say the Assad regime would have fallen in 2012 you know within a year from the revolution
29:13
without people on the ground militias funded armed supplied by Iran and without the air force of the
29:23
Russian fighter jets I mean it almost fell I mean to to to be exact even even at the first
29:31
you know at the beginning of the first two years of the Revolution uh despite dozens and dozens
29:37
of militias coming I mean let's face it the Iranian government was funding supplying and
29:44
and sending militias from Afghanistan from uh from Pakistan from Iraq from lebanan all under
29:55
sectarian pretext all under the the claim of protecting the holy sites in Syria these same
30:01
holy sites that existed in Syria for decades for centuries and centuries under the protection of
30:07
sunnis in Syria because sunnis like Shia rever the families of the prop they wouldn't yes there are
30:16
divisions and they will happen but the problem is that political division it's an excuse Iran needed needed to find an excuse to protect its uh its Ally it man its man in Syria because you know
30:27
it wanted to it it to protect the route for its uh influence uh weapon transport routes toah all
30:36
the way to the Mediterranean there are a lot of I mean politically it's clear why Iran would do
30:41
that and and one wouldn't be surprised when when when it's done by Russia when it's done by uh you
30:47
know Western governments but for a country to claim an to be an Islamic State to be driven by
30:52
Islamic values that's where the hypocrisy that's why syrians and I think many Muslims were harsher
30:59
in their critique of Iran than Russia although Russia was heavily involved in the in the mass
31:04
murder because Russia used the scorched Earth Earth policy uh dropping missiles and all sorts
31:09
of deadly weapons from the air Russia didn't have fires on the ground you know very little you know
31:16
a chuchin unit that the pro Russia the protin chuchin unit that they brought in to keep peace qu
31:22
un Cote their killing was done on air the massacre on the ground was done mostly by the milit
31:28
funded by Iran and and if anybody has a debate you know is debating what happened I would suggest
31:34
they talk to syrians who has lost who have lost loved ones at the hands of hisbah at the hands of
31:41
of of some of these militias coming from Iraq the militias and various under various names dozens
31:48
I'm talking about of these groups well known and it's not secret I mean the reality is on their
31:54
own website they were bragging and boasting about sending their fighters to uh to be in Syria and
32:01
and the claim to be were fighting Isis and alqa the reality is they were involved way before alqa
32:09
or or Isis had any any role in Syria or any major role to be exact their their attacks most of their
32:16
attacks much of their attacks were on the what's known the Syrian Rebel groups the free seran army
32:23
the jam you know all the various uh uh groups that are part of the rebels not part of alqa or Isis
32:30
yes and the reality is as the sectarian role of these militias grew uh unfortunately uh it became
32:40
easier for extremist groups uh like uh uh uh Isis and Al to recruit people because now now they're
32:46
saying look this is a war about your own identity they want to kill you because you're Sunni this
32:53
is no longer about Syria's freedom and so on so yeah they they they they gained some ground
32:58
but the reality is much of the clashes that these militias had were not with Isis Isis probably 85%
33:06
of its clashes were against Syrian rebels and maybe 90% of their victims were actually sunnis
33:13
from these uh Sunni Villages and and rebel groups uh because you know again I don't want
33:19
to get into conspiracy theory it could be one of two things either Isis is so extreme and we
33:24
know they are and brutal that in their mind we can never succeed until we clean our own ranks
33:31
quote unquote as they would say or actually they were serving bigger agendas uh you know Iranian
33:38
agenda Syrian government agenda Etc ET you know by by doing the bidding by reconfirming the biggest
33:46
myth and lie that the Assad regime was claiming this is not our Rebellion for uh for Freedom uh
33:52
this is these are terrorists and we're only fighting and killing terrorists so the Isis
33:58
uh with their crimes and what they did obviously serve the Assad narrative uh but Isis was a tiny
34:04
tiny part of this whole conflict uh brutal no debate uh but in terms of the extent of the
34:11
context of of the of the conflict TimeWise and casualties it was you know by far by far Assad
34:19
has killed you know 100 times more than you know hundreds of time more people more syrians
34:25
than Isis ever did in its all uh brutality over the years it was in control of certain areas in
Become a Member
34:31
Syria when the genocide in Gaza began I vowed we would never let those responsible get away with
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for acence with their empire building project we at the thinking Muslims said about changing the
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Israel’s role in Syria
36:29
can I ask you about Israel's role in the current crisis but generally in destabilizing uh the
36:36
Syrian Revolution um now I've heard from a number of Western analysts that uh the Israelis are
36:42
heavily lobbying uh Washington to keep sanctions on on uh the on the government the interim
36:48
government uh and the country in in Syria um and uh recently there has been uh a a war of World
36:57
over the Drew's population in the south of the country and Israel has been uh mooting the idea
37:03
of creating a buffer zone to protect in inverted commas the the Drews uh I just read earlier today
37:09
that um a hundred Drews religious leaders uh visited uh Israel for the first time in in
37:17
many decades uh visited one of the religious sites I think it was a tomb of prophet sh or
37:24
somewhere and so um there is obvious ly a uh a a conversation that's that's taking place between
37:32
the Drews population and the Israelis and Israelis are utilizing the welfare of the Drews population
37:40
in order to intervene in in in Syrian uh domestic affairs um so I suppose my question is really
37:47
about Israel's role how how do you analyze its role in the current crisis it is no secret that
37:53
Israel has been part of its policy whether it's in action what it supports what it undermines or what
37:59
it lobbies in the US is not to see a democracy in the Middle East because in their view uh a
38:06
democracy would elect people who are accountable to the Views and the aspirations of the local
38:11
people the local people by far support the right of the Palestinian people to be free so Israel
38:18
prefers to deal with dictators dictators are easy to deal with you know promise them to keep
38:23
them in power and they will do your bidding again it's might sound like an overgeneralization but
38:29
that's the reality that's why when the Arab Spring started Israel worked with the the well-known Arab
38:37
states that are considered to be Allied allies of of Israel to undermine uh the the results
38:45
uh and the fruits of the Arab Spring in Libya in in Egypt you know under you know overthrowing uh
38:51
president late president Muhammad mury supporting the coup of CCE undermining the situation in Li
38:58
Libya funding and supporting General ha uh because it's the democracy is a threat to Israel because
39:08
it has to deal now with people it has to deal with realities and it can can no longer claim to
39:13
be the only democracy in the region right it says Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East so it doesn't help now with with the situation in Syria as much as Assad blabbered against Israel
39:28
Israel was happy with keeping him as weakened with clipped Wings over Syria understanding that
39:35
he is allowing for hisbah to resupply Weaponry through it it's you know Iran Iraq Syria and
39:43
then to Lebanon but that was an easy that was a price willing for Israel willing to pay uh because
39:50
anyway it was constantly almost on a weekly basis targeting those supply lines targeting uh
39:58
hisbah intelligence a agents there in Syria and Iraq targeting Iranian officials including the
40:05
Ambassador in Syria and Damascus including the Revolutionary guards uh uh the brigades uh leaders
40:14
it's an open field for them and they knew and you know I would say uh unconfirmed information says
40:20
that much of that information was leaked by people in the Assad regime like you know the whereabout
40:25
of all these meetings and all these people it just hard to believe uh that that it it happened
40:32
without some real good source intelligence Source on the ground most probably it's the Assad regime
40:38
because Assad regime the Assad regime is not an ideological regime that's what people don't know
40:43
some of the pro Palestinian sometimes people on the left in the west they they have a a vision
40:50
you know they think when they think of Gaddafi's rhetoric or Assad's rhetoric they think of them as ideological anti-imperial these people can be pro-imperialist I mean for God's sake the Assad
41:01
family allowed the CIA to use Syria for for its torture centers uh it it has no issue uh jumping
41:11
ship and and changing alliances as needed to stay in power that's the only ideology they
41:16
have to stay in power it is not a religious identity it is not an anti not a pro Muslim it is not a pro alawi they would use anything to keep that family in power so with that said
41:28
I mean at least in in in in in in for Israel itself it was okay with keeping us and the the
41:36
the the turn of events uh on on you know in late November till December 8 when the Assad regime
41:44
fell took everybody by surprise you know they it's actually reported in Israeli newspapers
41:50
that the Israeli cabinet had to have an emergency meeting even on a Sabbath night Friday night just
41:55
to decide what to do with with with the quick fall of the Assad regime at that time and uh
42:02
it it was made clear through various uh comments and statements from various Israeli officials they
42:09
would like to see Syria divided into four regions one in the north for the alawis like a minate one
42:16
in the south for the Drews where Israel was hoping it would create a special relationship in you know
42:22
to to connect with the drus in the occupied Gan Heights that Israel occupied illegally and then
42:29
one in the in the middle for the sunnis Sunni Arabs and then one on the east side Northern East
42:35
northeast side for the Kurds alhamdulillah thank God uh those plans or this plan at least is not
42:42
uh uh being realized as we speak we know there is some some uh derailment of that attempt but
42:50
I would not trust I mean we know Israel you know they have committed to spending a billion dollar
42:56
to uh engage with the DRS of Syria as they said to have them reject the current government and maybe
43:03
claim EI either demand self-rule or uh secession from from Syria uh the the drw's people uh have
43:14
a long history of being Syrian nationalist actually you know they they they were among the leaders against the French occupation uh you know uh Sultan bashash a very well known uh Drew's
43:27
leader was part of that Revolution against the the the French occupation the colonialist many
43:34
of their members many of the members of the duw community have have made it clear in various
43:39
statements on social media within their ngos they reject Israel's inter interference in Syria's
43:47
Syrian Affairs uh expressed uh their wish to be reunited with Syria and I think there are talks
43:56
happening now uh to prevent that because they know uh the the even the leaders of the drw community
44:02
even of those who might have some misgivings or concerns about the current government in Syria how representative how inclusive is going to be they also know they cannot rely on Israeli support
44:13
forever Israel would use and abuse any Community it did that with the Kurdish community did that
44:19
with the Maronite community in Lebanon it did that with the Shia Community early on back in the days
44:25
so it would do that and they know that Community would be left by itself on its own uh to deal with
44:33
the anger of the rest of the of that region so I think people are smart enough to know uh there's
44:39
no other solution for syrians other than getting together and building a country that will respect
44:45
the rights the aspirations the hope of everyone of their citizens yes Syria is diverse yes Syria has
44:52
one majority and and a lot of a smaller number minorities but they're all citizens of of that
44:57
same country and we we we we we can see and hope for a country that will uh include and and and
45:04
embrace all its citizens all its diverse population and uh on uh the conversation
Diverse groups in Syria
45:11
about Ahmed Asar and the way he's handling uh the sectarian differences in in the country um how do
45:19
you uh evaluate his approach to uh to sectarianism I I note again but there was a major break
45:27
through with the uh Kurds in the northeastern uh part of the country who have always wanted to have
45:33
some level of of autonomous uh uh an autonomous region in fact they had previously established
45:40
what was known as the so-called rojava State um so uh there is a a real attempt to bring them in and
45:49
to integrate these various groups into the central Syrian State um you know how do you assess the
45:57
quality of that engagement with with these groups again I always bring some context to the viewers
46:03
and listeners uh Kurds are an integral part of Syria they're they're not it's not you know when
46:09
we watch Western media there's a portrayal of Kurds as some isolated community living in in
46:15
the mountains Kurds constitute a large segment of the people of Aleppo the people of Damascus the
46:23
people of hamama uh they arabis Kurds right like they're kurd in ethnicity culture but also they
46:30
speak Arabic fluently they don't see a conflict between Arabic and Kurdish at the same time this
46:35
is a very modern conflict in that region Kurds were part you know there were Kurdish presidents
46:41
uh almost every Muti you know was Kurdish uh in s sy's history judges most of the judges who
46:49
are appointed during the Ottoman Empire were of Kurdish background because kurd Kurds are
46:55
people of knowledge when it comes to Islam they were they were U well respected in the depth of
47:00
knowledge they invested in as a community and you go to areas in Damascus R you know again Kurds are
47:08
prominent they food they PE you wouldn't tell I can tell you that you can go to Damascus you can
47:14
go to Aleppo and you can be a friend with somebody unless you're an expert in last names you have no
47:19
you would have no idea because people it it is not that separated as the way media portrays it
47:25
sometimes maybe the DRS because they they're a little bit more isolated in certain regions in the sueda area people might not have that interaction in the same depth that they have it
47:35
with the Kurdish people and and so on so I would say I'm not worried because the Kurdish people uh
47:42
are are also very very very caring patriotic uh for for for for Syria uh they're proud Muslims
47:49
what we see is a Kurdish nationalist movement that is an offshoot of the pkk that has ruled over that
47:56
part part of s the uh SDF and and and uh and and and their likes there that group in in in general
48:06
took its orders from oans from uh pkk you know who who who was arrested in in in in Turkey it is
48:14
Marxist leftist so it had an ideology and it was riant on us support the US was the main funer and
48:23
supporter of of of that separatist movement and and the Assad regime allowed it to thrive because
48:29
it created a counter pressure to the rebels you know instead of having the whole Rebels control the whole area you know it creates internal strife and Israel had a role and at one point some Arab
48:40
governments were supporting it because you know they were scoring you know settling some scores with the government of turkey what has happened after the uh the fall of the Assad regime number
48:50
one there was a change in government in the US uh the Biden Administration was Hardcore in support
48:57
of the SDF and their region uh Trump seems to be less interested in being in in that part of the
49:04
world so he has announced publicly and and and secretly I guess both that he plans to withdraw
49:11
from it or withdraw us presence whether it's money or soldiers uh which obviously created
49:17
fear for the uh uh for the separatist and also uh you know with the change in government now
49:25
and and and a strong Syrian government government establishing control over much of Syria uh and
49:31
Assad is gone it became harder for the leaders of that region to claim they opposing asset you
49:37
know what what are you opposing now now you are you declaring secession from from Syria and then
49:44
there's the Turkish Factor you know Turkey sees that as a threat a threat to its own Unity as
49:49
a country because pkk has been leading you know until recently you know now they just announced
49:57
you know talks about uh seizing fire or maybe dropping their weapons but until for for for
50:04
decades they were leading a separatist war that has cost many civilian lives in the area so so
50:09
turkey has legitimate concerns about that so I think the leaders mlum abidi the leader of the
50:15
separatist is a smart man uh and I hope he is you know also patriotic enough to realize it is in the
50:23
interest of all syrians including Syrian Kurds uh to have a unified country not at War people
50:31
are tired uh so I'm I'm hopeful actually I mean we we we we heard the you know the statement we
50:36
read the statement of agreement that was signed between both mlid and president Ahmed Shar uh I
50:43
I'm hearing also there are some uh some there's some resistance in the separatist area but I think
50:49
the majority are are and keeping in mind that area is not all Kurdish na you know Nationals
50:57
uh actually in some part of that controlled area by sdp SDF is is is actually also Arabic
51:05
uh uh ethnicities there so it is a bit more complicated uh I think a long war is very
51:12
difficult uh especially on the people of that region including the sepas area so I think it's
51:18
in their interest as well the interest of all of Syria uh to to be part of some government maybe
51:24
with some cultural rights protected I don't know self-rule is going to be the case I doubt because
51:30
it's very difficult again it's not you know there are a couple of areas K maybe some cities and Villages are predominantly Kurdish but the rest is very mixed it's going to be very difficult
51:41
to have one dominate over the other I think what Syria needs is to rid itself of Arab nationalism
51:48
which was a tool introduced by the bath party uh to kind of create that repressive Tool uh and resp
51:56
the diversity of Syria syrians appreciate the Arab culture that they have because it is the
52:03
culture you know you can be Kurdish you can be Armenian you can be Assyrian and you speak Arabic and you're proud of uh engaging in that language but we don't want to see that being
52:14
pushed in a form of nationalism that takes away the rights of other people I think that is that
52:20
is the legitimate concern Kurds have raised under the Assad regime that their culture their identity
52:26
was under attack they were denied their basic right and I think uh islamically leaning groups
52:33
which is you know who sh is and a lot of their his allies have less of this nationalism and I
52:39
think they have appreciation for the diversity of the region uh they don't feel insecure when people
52:45
say I speak Kurdish or the turkman people speak Turkish or Armenians speak Armenian or whoever
52:52
wants to speak language of their choice there's less uh I think insecurity about that and I hope
52:59
that leads to more again openness between those diverse communities inshah and and one final
Syria & Trump presidency
53:05
question on on on Syria for Trump presidency now uh during the uh the pre-inauguration period um
53:13
Donald Trump sent out some signals on Syria early January when the uh Rebellion took hold and and uh
53:21
fought successfully the um Assad forces that uh you the US should stay out and should not
53:28
be involved in in the the crisis and we know historically uh he reduced troop numbers uh in
53:35
the northeastern part of Syria and um he uh he in effect favored um eran's uh message that uh
53:45
uh America needs to wind down in in the Middle East and of course the general policy of the Trump Administration is to wind down in the Middle East and not to have entanglements um
53:56
um I found it having said that it it's it's been very difficult to find a consistent policy of the
54:03
Trump administration at this stage on Syria and a host of other uh issues in the Middle East I mean
54:09
you are far more closely involved in monitoring uh the administration there uh from your perspective
54:17
is there a a trump policy towards Syria that you can discern I think the Trump Administration has
54:23
been busy with some domestic files and obviously the dismantling of various agencies uh that's a
54:30
different story but also with the Ukraine Russia file because that is a bigger one for the US it's
54:36
it's a financially uh more uh costly uh for the US plus you know the the various other issues you
54:45
know Trump's connections with with with Putin and and campaign uh promises that he has made
54:52
and so on and then The Clash that's developing and Brewing between the US and uh Europe in general so
55:01
that's taking a lot of his analyst his cabinet's time um I don't think there is a a crystallized
55:09
policy yet for Syria or on Syria however these policies are not delivered by one man you know as
55:17
as powerful as he is and as egocentric as he might be I'm sure he's relying on intelligence reports
55:24
military reports Israeli reports reports Arab allies reports and Turkish government's reports so
55:31
all of these are you know all of these are going to be pushing in different directions Israel as
55:37
you said earlier correctly and there there were stories written leaked in various media Outlets about the Israeli government pressuring Trump not to lift the sanctions until they get some
55:48
kind of compromises from the sh government uh in in basically uh you know some some of the talk
55:56
is about accepting uh forced refugees from Gaza into Syria uh maybe signing an agreement with a
56:03
peace agreement with with Israel that relinquishes uh Syria's uh control uh or sovereignty over the
56:13
Golan Heights for example which I doubt will happen because the the Syrian government is more
56:19
in tune with the with the popular sentiment on the on the street and I I doubt they will do that
56:26
uh but also you have Arab Arab governments uh which are very worried about a democracy in
56:31
the Arab countries you know I talked about Israel being uh weary of of a democracy in the region uh
56:38
but the truth is many Arab dictators are equally afraid and opposed to seeing uh an Arab a fellow
56:45
Arab country run through a democracy so they're also putting pressure to condition any lifting of
56:53
sanctions uh but also you know there's some kind of a bromance between Trump and president erdogan
57:00
that seems Trump admires some of the policies and has given him given him some leeway based
57:07
on uh you know seeing maybe uh him as a strong man in the region needed for the US Etc you know
57:15
the balancing act with Russia NATO whatever it is the reason it's a whole different discussion
57:21
of course Syria Syria's border is the longest uh with with with turkey and the the country with the
57:29
the most influence on Syria now is turkey under the uh the government of President erdogan so uh
57:36
turkey will have a say in terms of helping shape what happens next and so far between turkey and
57:43
Qatar there has been a commitment to stabilize the process in Syria and establish a democratic
57:49
process where there would be a parliament a constitution elections and so on because stability a stable Unified Syria geographically is in the interest of turkey let alone some of
58:00
the religious Affinity that turkey has with its border with with with syrians in general
58:06
and all of that but at least from a practical perspective it is important for for turkey to see a stable Syria so I think in the next few weeks maybe couple of month at most we will see
58:19
a crystallized uh Syrian policy uh for the US in that region uh I'm hoping you know from from what
58:26
we we're seeing and hearing is that uh they there is an interest in keeping Iran's influence out of
58:34
Syria uh because you know a weak Syria will invite again the interest you know Iran uh involvement
58:42
and interference in Syria so maybe they will find some kind of common interest between Ahmed sh and
58:50
uh and and and the uh the West uh and the Arab governments uh turkey because uh again he has been
58:58
very careful uh we have to give him credit you know people change because you know you mentioned Ahmed Shar earlier and you know not to divert from this question but I it is important I would say
59:08
as as a syrian-american activist as a human rights activist I criticized Ahmed sh when he was part of
59:16
you know openly criticized because that's not the future for Syria that's not the good future for the region you know and and then when he shifted from that and clashed with them and when on with
59:27
forming with a toned down approach and more inclusive uh and the way they operated in idlib
59:36
area uh you know these were positive moves and and and and and improvements that people noticed and
59:43
then you add to it uh what we've seen over the last two month you know since December 88 in uh
59:51
in Syria so maybe three month certainly we've see a we we see a a person who's practical uh
59:58
maybe well rooted in his in his faith well rooted in his ideology and that is fine you can deal with
1:00:04
ideological people as long as they're pragmatic enough to understand you know there are more
1:00:09
people and other people than you and so far I'll have to give him credit he has played it well uh
1:00:15
you know looking for the interest of Syria and syrians understanding that a wrong act on his
1:00:22
from his end from his side would inv invite again the return if not the Assad regime of
1:00:28
another regime from one of those former military people so he understands that he's not goingon to
1:00:35
get everything that he had hoped for maybe five 10 years ago when he was a younger man uh you know as
1:00:40
you get older we all change we all change we all learn life is not fully black and white there's a
1:00:45
lot of gray area there are a lot of people who are good people who might be differently ideologically
1:00:50
than you but you can come to a common ground where we respect together you know Prosperity growth
1:00:57
progress for the country stability elections sometimes you win sometimes you lose that it seems is the direction of Syria and I hope it continues to be that way that's a very positive
Comment on Mahmoud Khalil
1:01:06
note to to end this section on um I I just want to turn uh for the remainder of the show uh husam
1:01:13
aou to a domestic story uh that has been brewing uh for a number of days and and that's really the
1:01:21
the fate of the American Muslim student Mahmud Khal uh who has been detained ained by uh by
1:01:28
border force uh by Ice uh uh police agents or ice agents and um uh there is uh every sign that the
1:01:38
Trump uh presidency that the administration wants to remove him from the country now um I I really
1:01:46
want your comment on this but also uh the broader um your broader point or your broader answer to uh
1:01:54
this niggling question I've had for some time when I whenever I interview uh American Muslims they've
1:02:00
always said that we have a constitution here in America and that Constitution safeguards us from
1:02:06
uh from the types of intrusions that you guys in Europe are are very much used to uh but it it it
1:02:13
just seems to me that the constitution matters very little um uh or at least at this stage to
1:02:20
uh uh the lives of of of Muslim activists in particular Palestinian Muslim activists
1:02:26
I know it's not just the Trump administration of course even the Biden administration were
1:02:31
very harsh towards um protest and protesters on University campuses so just comment on on Mahmud
1:02:39
Khal please for for me sure I mean certainly I would say this is probably one of the most
1:02:44
serious assaults on our constitution on the First Amendment the free speech amendment since 911 you
1:02:51
know after 911 we we we saw a a a turn into that direction where freedoms were were being
1:02:59
restrained and constrained and attacked uh with the push of the Patriot Act people's uh ability
1:03:06
to express themselves their political views were being under threat but also with lawsuits it
1:03:13
it allowed basically a push back against that direction back then and and reaffirm that the
1:03:19
constitution is above all so yes many of those you spoke with are right in a sense that we've seen
1:03:25
back again and again you know mcarthism during the era uh uh you know the anti-communism activism of
1:03:33
the 50s and 60s in America uh the the targeting of these civil rights activists and movements you
1:03:39
know Dr King Malcolm X you know it it's it swivel I would say it goes up and down the pendulum goes
1:03:48
you know people react and they're they politicize uh their reaction to whatever movement it is you
1:03:54
know the anti-war movement the anti- anti-vietnam war the anti segregation movement the Civil Rights
1:04:01
Movement so you know people get polarized and then one side becomes really uh uh galvanized
1:04:09
and they want to sacrifice freedom in order to silence their opponents what we're seeing
1:04:15
today it is not really necessarily unlike the other ex the other examples that I used it is
1:04:23
not the same in in a sense it's not an American popular sentiment this is a very politicized uh
1:04:29
position driven by the pro-israel the pro genocide lobbies and their supporters in America uh at at
1:04:37
you know basically they are uh weaponizing uh our constitution our Free Speech uh uh Trump's uh
1:04:48
anger at at the left at liberal America liberal colleges all of that they're weaponizing that
1:04:55
to silence critics of the state of Israel and its abuses in Palestine and they they
1:05:02
they're looking for the most vulnerable now so they're looking for foreign students and then the permanent residents in this case Mahmud Khal a student you know until recently a student
1:05:13
of Columbia University a permanent resident married to a US citizen pregnant eight-month
1:05:19
pregnant uh who had engaged as far as we've all seen they haven't seen any evidence of
1:05:25
doing or illegal activities just free speech vocal absolutely clear with his vocal opposition to the
1:05:33
genocide absolutely vocal in his support support for the Palestinians and their right to live free
1:05:39
on their land absolutely it's not a crime not def definitely not under the Constitution but it is a
1:05:47
political issue now it's a political agenda it's a political Vendetta it's a also political scoring because you know that's what he promised a base uh remember uh Trump appealed to various bases you
1:05:58
know the religious right the ultra right uh the conservatives but also the conservative zionists
1:06:06
who had promised him you know money they delivered on money and votes like the various communities uh
1:06:14
now the the reality is this this is galvanizing a response uh at a higher level that we haven't seen
1:06:22
in years in America not just the left this is not just the progressives even those who are Centrist
1:06:28
even those who until recently were pro-israeli and Zionist maybe on the left or Zionist in the
1:06:35
center on the center are realizing that anybody could be next if they can arrest actually it's
1:06:41
not an arrest it's an abduction because there no charges were filed the the the people who arrested
1:06:47
Mahmud mistreated his wife refused to share information they came wearing plain clothes
1:06:54
uh they were not they didn't have IDs they didn't they didn't didn't share business CS who they are
1:06:59
unmarked cars uh so this this is like you know I joke sometimes with people I say many of us
1:07:06
escaped the brutality and the oppression of the Middle East but it seems the Middle East loves us so much it follows us here in America and we're going to make sure it doesn't happen I think there
1:07:16
are enough people in America that understand that this is no longer about Palestine and Israel this
1:07:21
is no longer about mm KH and his activism or student activism or a green card holder this
1:07:28
is about a a creeping assault on our constitution because that next they're going to declare certain
1:07:37
speech a threat to America's security that that would include Pro probably criticism of policies
1:07:44
engaged by by the Trump Administration so I'm very hopeful that uh between the law the the
1:07:51
power of the court system that we have in America uh the action of the president will be challenged
1:07:58
uh and and and the president will have to deal like anybody else with evidence this not about
1:08:04
I feel I hate I it's going to be about evidence proving any illegal actions uh by by Mahmud which
1:08:13
they have not introduced and probably does not even exist and allowing the accused to
1:08:18
defend themselves and inshallah God willing if we can uh win that legally and through public
1:08:25
opinion pressure it will Empower many people and and and and I think it will G Galvanize
1:08:32
progressives Democrats and Libertarians many Libertarians actually have supported Trump
1:08:38
uh you know for some political reasons but I'm hoping even those Republican uh Libertarians would
1:08:45
realize that these policies are a threat uh to America itself and the Liberty that exist um how
Constitution aids Muslims?
1:08:51
confident are you that the constitution will come to the aid of of American American Muslims I mean
1:08:56
I note that um at the moment there doesn't really seem to be any effective opposition either from
1:09:03
the Democrats or the traditional institutions of State towards um uh you towards uh Donald
1:09:11
Trump and his administration and and some of the excesses of that Administration uh the Supreme
1:09:16
Court now has a very strong majority with a conservative bias um you know Donald Trump in
1:09:24
effect has a majority it in the House and Senate uh I appreciate that it's it's much more difficult
1:09:30
to get you know laws passed because of the um the two-thirds majority in the Senate but nevertheless
1:09:36
there is a a very strong um uh Force now in favor of or bias in favor of of Donald Trump I mean are
1:09:46
we are we going to see as you just quite rightly said you know an Arab regime style government in
1:09:53
in in the United States personally I don't think it's going to happen I think we're going to face some setbacks yes we're going to lose couple of battles uh but those battles uh remember Trump
1:10:05
is Waging War on many levels on many fronts at on many fronts not just Free Speech but also against
1:10:11
education against you know even with the economy uh messing up relationships with the West with the
1:10:19
Europe with Canada with Greenland uh and various you know Nations and with with Mexico and so on So
1:10:27
eventually even those who supported him are going to feel uh the impact of his bad policies and his
1:10:33
actions uh remember we have a midterm election every two years in America which determines uh uh
1:10:39
the the membership of of our Congress the house specifically so every member of the house is up
1:10:46
for election and onethird of this of the Senate is up for election and if there's enough of a
1:10:53
reaction of a sentiment and Trump sentiment in the next year or so then people are going
1:10:59
to choose different people in Congress that and and we're not talking about Landslide but
1:11:05
enough of few uh uh makeup of deceits that it will deprive him from his majority will
1:11:12
make it very difficult for him to get things done at that point and then will will create a bigger uh resistance to his policies I think we have to worry I mean Trump is is is somebody that
1:11:25
makes a lot of people worried because his regard for the to the for the Constitution is not that
1:11:32
high and I think he sees it as a convenient document as long as it serves his policies uh but
1:11:39
I still believe in our system I think I I think uh the opposition to Trump is still in shock from the
1:11:47
L of the of you know the November loss and there's still an some reassessment of what caused this
1:11:54
loss the reality is Democrats are doing their soul searching today to uh to recognize uh and they
1:12:03
have yet to admit that publicly but I can tell you the Grassroots the rank and file recognizes it is
1:12:09
the stubbornness of of the establishment within the Democratic party that led to Trump winning
1:12:16
you know it led so many Democrats and voters to abstain and not vote for this election because
1:12:21
they were fed up with the way the campaign was conducting its campaigns with Cala haris and
1:12:27
especially on many issues but specifically there's no debate a third of the people who didn't vote
1:12:33
in that election while they voted uh four years ago are people who said they didn't vote because
1:12:40
of the the way the Harris campaign behaved on the issue of Palestine and Raza the genocide
1:12:46
on Raza so it you know I know it's a little bit different but what I'm saying is you know after
1:12:54
the shock people are now realizing that okay you know now we need to regroup so you have immigrants
1:12:59
rights groups civil rights groups labor you have uh groups representing various minorities uh who
1:13:06
at one point thought maybe you know we couldn't tell who is the lesser of two evil and maybe we still didn't know who is the lesser of two evil but that's behind us today like at this point we
1:13:16
certainly have someone who is endangering uh the well-being of America and the Constitution and if
1:13:21
we lose that uh then we lose everything so I'm I'm I don't want to be an alarmist yes I think there
1:13:27
will be some setbacks because the opposition is not organized but I think it is organizing as we
1:13:33
speak because they realize everybody uh everything is at stake and everybody could become a potential
1:13:39
Target of of of these repressive policies from the Trump Administration thank you so much for your
1:13:47
time today my pleasure thank you very much for giving me the opportunity lovely thank you so much
1:13:55
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