Ep 215. - Why Have We Forgotten Kashmir? With Dr Muzzammil Ayyub Thakur

You can also listen to the episode using the links below, remember to subscribe so you never miss a show

AppleSpotify • GoogleStitcher • or on Alexa

Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and a rating on Spotify - it helps us reach a wider audience

It was the great Mughal emperor Jahanghir who said about Kashmir, Gar firdaus, ruhe zamin ast, hamin asto, hamin asto, hamin ast - If there is a paradise on earth, it is here, it is here, it is here. For 76 years, this beautiful land and its wonderful people have been under Indian occupation. In 1947, upon partition, the original settlement between the principalities and the Indian government was to create an autonomous region, where the vastly Muslim population would govern themselves under Indian sovereignty. Over the successive decades and governments, this agreement has been eroded and today Kashmir is one of the most heavily militarised places in the world.

Yet we do not talk enough about Kashmir and the plight of its Muslims. To set the record straight I am honoured to have on the show Dr Muzammil Thakkur who is the President of World Kashmir Freedom Movement.

List of Books on Kashmir:

Victoria Schofield - Kashmir in Conflict

Victoria Schofield - The History of Kashmir

Alastair Lamb - The Birth of a Tragedy

Alastair Lamb - A Disputed Legacy

Christopher Snedden - The Unwritten History of Kashmir

Khalid Bashir - Kashmir: Exposing the Myths Behind the Narrative

Shah Nalik Haider Chadura - Tarikh-e-Kashmir

Mridu Rai - Hindu Rulers, Muslim Subjects: Islam, Rights, and the History of Kashmir

Assorted Authors - Do You Remember Kunan Poshpora?

Sanjay Kak - Until My Freedom Has Come: The New Intifada in Kashmir

You can find Dr Thakkur here:

X: https://x.com/M_A_Thakur

Become a member here:

https://www.thinkingmuslim.com/membership

Or give your one-off donation:

https://www.thinkingmuslim.com/donate

Let me remind all viewers that to help us continue to engage critical thought at this time, please consider becoming a Member: https://www.thinkingmuslim.com/membership

You can also support The Thinking Muslim through a one-time donation: https://www.thinkingmuslim.com/donate

Sign up to Muhammad Jalal's newsletter: https://jalalayn.substack.com

Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation

Introduction

0:00

we model ourselves like the Palestinians  we resist the same way they do we've   been occupied suppressed oppressed  tortured and forcibly disappeared  

0:08

torture centers on children as young as  5 years old we have been a laboratory   experiment are we not Muslim enough  for you we maintain our resistance  

0:16

we maintained our Muslim identity and  we're proud of it we have no problem in it it was the great morgul emperor  jangir who said about Kashmir

0:35

if there is a paradise on Earth it is here it is  here it is here for 76 years this beautiful land  

0:41

and its wonderful people have been under Indian  occupation in 1947 upon partition the original  

0:48

settlement between the principalities and the  Indian government was to create an autonomous  

0:53

region where the vastly Muslim population  would govern themselves under some notional  

0:58

Indian sovereignty over the successive decades  and governments this agreement has been eroded  

1:04

and today Kashmir is one of the most heavily  militarized places in the world in 2019 the  

1:10

government of narenda Modi annuled the provisions  of the Constitution that gate Kashmir the special  

1:16

status the so-called article 370 and began  measures to integrate the territory into an  

1:22

Indian supremacist State the revocation enabled  Indians to purchase land in the valley and within  

1:29

time res set its Muslim majority demography  Indian occupation has been particularly brutal  

1:36

and these past six years have seen horrendous  rights abuses yet we do not talk enough about  

1:41

Kashmir and the plight of its Muslims to set the  record straight I am honored to have on the show  

1:47

Dr mazam thakur Who is the president of the world  Kashmir Freedom Movement is Kashmir a forgotten  

1:56

conflict Dr Ma aamayum and welcome to the thinking  Muslim wum Salam thank you for having me so Dr M  

2:05

let's start from the very very Basics because I  I I suspect there are lots of Muslims who just   don't know enough about the Kashmir conflict its  Origins who's occupying uh when did it begin um  

Occupation of Kashmir

2:16

what's the nature of the occupation is it like  the Wagers is it like uh Palestine you know that  

2:23

there are uh I suspect many if not most Muslims  who are watching this just don't understand the k  

2:30

conflict so just take us through Kashmir 101 the  very basics of this so like most uh conflicts um  

2:38

or outstanding conflicts it's a product of British  the British rage um K has been occupied since 1947  

2:48

but our Liberation movement has started for a  long time we were sold by the British to the   seek uh to to the D Empire in 1846 so our history  goes back the same way that Palestinians have also  

2:59

it's not everything did not start in October  the 7th everything didn't start in 1947 or 1948   but if we go based on uh um modern history post  partition India and Pakistan were created Muslim  

3:11

majority nations were supposed to go with Pakistan  Hindu majority nations with India the problem with  

3:17

Kashmir was we had a Muslim majority with a Hindu  ruler the Hindu ruler of course wanted to exceed  

3:22

with India but because the population were Muslim  it was supposed to go with Pakistan India said no  

3:28

no no we have to accept what the rulers decision  is and decided to impose their occupation whereas  

3:33

in other places like Hyderabad it had a Muslim  ruler but Hindu subjects and India said no no  

3:40

no we have to listen to what the people want so  it was basically you know selective outrage and  

3:46

selective choices by the Indian government at the  time they decided to occupy Kashmir the people of  

3:52

Kashmir did not want to be part of India well  whether they wanted to be part of Pakistan or   independent is a completely different matter  they just didn't want to be a part of India  

4:00

and uh people resisted people fought the entire  state of Jammu and Kashmir de decided to resist  

4:06

October 27th 1947 we recognize as a black day  when the Indian forces landed in Kashmir and  

4:13

occupied the territory um and since then The  Liberation movement has been ongoing now since  

4:18

now I can tell you about the atrocities since  then over 70 years but I'll only tell you about  

4:24

what happened in November where a quarter  of a million Muslims were massacred in jamu  

4:30

and hundreds of thousands more had to flee and  move to Pakistan or other areas because of the  

4:37

uh the genocide that had happened so genocide  for the people of Kashmir has been going on for   the last 76 years and it wasn't incremental it  happened all of a sudden um and since then we've  

4:49

been occupied suppressed oppressed tortured  and forcibly disappeared we've had uh uh  

4:55

pellets bullets the use of uh torture centers on  children as young as 5 years old the Abduction of  

5:02

children the abduction Abduction of men and women  languishing in jails political leaders like masam  

5:09

andrai kasim faku they murdered Ali Shah gilani  and as sah now you may not know these names but  

5:17

these names are as dear to us as they are as as  certain names would be for the Palestinians or  

5:22

for the Iraqis or for the Afghan these are Big  names for us um responsible for the resistance  

5:29

responsible for pres trying to preserve  the Muslim identity so the India decided  

5:35

to occupy Kashmir because they wanted the land  for themselves for a multitude of reasons some  

5:41

will say because of Water Resources uh a lot  of the water hydroelectric power that is can be   generated and that is generated goes to India um  it's a huge potential there also uh it's an a bone  

5:52

of contention between Pakistan and India India  don't want to lose face by giving up Kashmir to   Pakistan um and at the same time you also have to  remember there are separatist movements happening  

6:02

inside India the siks they want their khalistan  to be recognized the people in Assam are also  

6:08

being subjected to some of the worst forms of  violence people of Manipur uh nagaland the knels  

6:15

South Indians even the uh people of Maharashtra  that are considered to be pure Indians even they  

6:21

don't like the rest of India so I mean that's  subject for a different day but the reason for  

6:27

the occupation is simply because India didn't  want to give or concede Kashmir to Pakistan they  

6:32

didn't want to for Pakistan to create a larger  Muslim uh uh belt in the region and uh cover the  

6:41

India's Northern Territory again probably better  to ask India why it was so important to them but  

6:49

from the perspective of a Kashmir a lot of it  is ego a lot of it is geostrategic political  

6:55

reasons you also have to remember there was a  at the time the Russians also wanted a presence  

7:00

in the subcontinent after the Cold War um so much  going on at that time but the most important fact  

7:07

to understand is that the Muslims were supposed uh  were not supposed to be assimilated with the rest  

7:14

of India you had a choice the same way that the  rest of the Muslims inside India if they wanted   to leave they left and they went to Pakistan and  those that remained we know what the condition of  

7:22

the Muslims in India are today and the people of  Kashmir knew what the conditions were going to be   we warned in fact the Muslims of India that this  is going to whatever is happen happening to us  

7:30

will happen to you we have been a laboratory  experiment happening uh for the last seven  

7:37

decades and every time we would warn the Muslims  in India that this is eventually going to happen  

7:42

to you and it happened to them it happened to them  on a scale that even they couldn't understand we  

7:48

maintain our resistance we maintained our Muslim  identity we didn't allow it to be diluted so  

7:54

anybody that said to us or asked us or expected  from us to take it lying down the same way that   other Muslims may have we model ourselves like  the Palestinians we resist the same way they

Donate to Baitulmaal

8:05

do one of the things that we should try to  inculcate in our life is a reciprocation of  

8:12

Allah's blessings recognizing the sun of Allah  and one of the great Sun of Allah the patterns  

8:18

of Allah in creation that we see in the Quran  and through Hadith is for us to care for Orphans  

8:23

so just as Allah subhah wa taala took care of  the Prophet sallallah alai was we should then  

8:29

extend that care to the orphans in  the world today and bab toal is at   the Forefront of doing this $64 a month $768  a year you can take care of an orphan in the  

8:39

Muslim World Imagine how powerful that is that  that orphan will come and bear witness for you   in the Hereafter that you provided food  shelter water care and value in meaning  

8:50

in a world that has lost its meaning I want to  encourage you to support the work of bee tomal   through this orphan sponsorship $64 a month  $768 a year can really impact and change the

9:02

world is Kashmir a forgotten conflict and we talk  about Palestine we talk about Gaza we talk about  

Is Kashmir forgotten?

9:12

other places for some reason we don't talk enough  about Kashmir is it forgotten you say that uh the  

9:19

similarities between Kashmir and Palestine there  are also similarities between the oppressor India  

9:25

and the zionists their ideology their philosophy  uh uh the way they want to implement the uh pan  

9:33

Nation the theory of their Arian race Nation  Theory but at the same time you're right I  

9:39

believe that we are the Forgotten Nation I think  we are a forgotten conflict um if I go far back  

9:45

in history enough I can give you moments where we  had our own Arab Springs multiple times and nobody  

9:52

noticed you mentioned 2019 it was a pivotal moment  for us article 370 which was a provision that uh  

9:59

and 35a it was a provision that allowed kashmiris  to own their own land so no Foreigner could buy   up land in Kashmir that prevented settler  colonization demographic change that's now  

10:08

eliminated that is a major thing it's a  major thing for the UR for the rohinga   for the Palestinians as we've seen people have  gotten uh um agitated about it but not for the  

10:18

people of Kashmir so it's beyond not just about  the memories of are Kashmir is forgotten or not  

10:26

it's does anybody actually care about the Muslims  of Kashmir are we not Muslim enough for you is my  

10:32

beard not long enough for you is my not correct  enough for you what is the problem so as being  

10:39

here on thinking Muslim uh podcast and reaching  out to a plethora of different type of Muslims  

10:44

around the world answer me this what is it about  the kashmiris that you cannot get behind not just  

10:50

as Muhammad Jalal and I ask you I will ask you  this personally as well and I ask everybody else   as well what is it about Kashmir that you cannot  get behind the same way that you can get behind  

10:59

any other Muslim conflict around the world but it  is quite odd isn't it um in Britain for example  

Activism Palestine and Kashmir

11:05

we've got a lot Pakistani community and probably  the great chunk of those pakistanis are from  

11:11

Kashmir uh from Azad Kashmir we'll talk about  the distinction in a second uh but yet they're  

11:17

kashmir's uh but on University campuses young  kashmiris young pakistanis young Muslims tend  

11:24

to do more activism say for Palestine than they  do for Kashmir I mean how do you explain that  

11:31

disconnect see I find you very offensive I find  that a very offensive question go on and I'll  

11:41

tell you why yes it's for the this is a question  that has to be asked about the student communities  

11:49

student-led organizations the the Muslim  organizations that exist in the United kingd I'm   not going to name drop them to shame them all but  we all know who they are yeah that it it it took  

11:59

it takes a genocide for people to get together for  certain causes more recently for what happened in  

12:07

Palestine especially in Gaza it took that for  people to get agitated and to get organized and  

12:13

to to try and uh uh alleviate the suffering of  the people of Palestine when you ask me that why  

12:20

can't people get behind that for Kashmir I find  it offensive not because you asking the question  

12:26

I find it offensive that other people have not  realized that what are they not doing or rather  

12:32

what are they how are they Mis representing Islam  and their identity as Muslims we spoke earlier and  

12:42

we were in the same protests and same uh uh vigils  and same uh um you know anything that had to do  

12:52

with post 911 be it Afghanistan be it Libya be it  Iraq and be it Palestine more recently with Yemen  

13:00

and other we're always we've always been there  organizing protesting being in the back being in   the front whatever it may be can you remember a  time that you as Muhammad Jalal or your peers or  

13:11

anybody else that you know did the same thing for  the people of Kashmir so when you ask me why it   isn't there I asked you why weren't you there why  didn't you do it why didn't my friends do it my  

13:20

colleagues do it why is it only the kashmiris that  have to be have to talk about their own selves I   ask you another question how many Palestinians  do you see on the front lines talking about  

13:30

Palestine they have their people the Palestinians  don't need to speak for themselves because we  

13:36

are all ready to give whatever it needs uh for  their cause yeah who's there to speak for the kashmiris it's not and I hate to use the term  and I hate to compare and I don't want to compare  

13:48

because the Palestinian cause is a sacred cause  in fact it is so sacred to the people of Kashmir   yeah and to me personally that in fact the first  protest that I ever remember going into to were  

13:59

Palestinian protests I don't remember going to the  Kashmir protest until I was much much older but  

14:05

for the people of Kashmir the Palestinian cause  is so sacred that anytime something happens in  

14:11

Palestine a few years ago in fact there was a  an air raid jet fighters had shot uh uh their  

14:19

machine guns in Palestine and of course the  world Community were in arms and the Muslim  

14:25

Community came out to the streets during that time  only one person anywhere in the world was killed  

14:32

protesting for Palestine it was a Kashmir living  in Kashmir from an occupied territory wow during  

14:39

this recent Spate of Violence by the zionists on  the Palestinians we have kashmiris and Kashmir  

14:44

uh creating graffiti art in support of Palestine  charged under the terrorism act and we're proud of  

14:52

it we have no problem in it we're not asking the  Muslims to be charged under terrorism acts for the  

14:57

people of Kashmir we're asking them that at least  you make the Dua at least in the in in J that you  

15:04

make the Dua for Kashmir the same way you do it  for everybody else are we not part of that um do   we not bleed to paraphrase Shakespeare do we not  have two eyes two ears and mouth and nose as you  

15:12

do are we not part of that um so so explain the  layout of of Kashmir so we have around a third  

Geography of Occupation

15:19

of the country if I'm not mistaken that we would  uh Define as aad Kashmir this is Kashmir which uh  

15:27

is attached to Pakistan and then 2third of of  Kashmir uh is under Indian occupation just set  

15:34

out the geography for me please it's important  to remember that the aad Kashmir the liberated  

15:39

part of uh Kashmir which is called Azad Kashmir  was liberated by its own people yeah they fought  

15:46

the Indian doer they fought the Indian army uh  and they managed to liberate themselves they   wanted to liberate the entire of Kashmir yeah  unfortunately the Indian army uh uh prevented  

15:55

that that area of aad Kashmir has an autonomy  within Pakistan the Pakistani Constitution has  

16:03

said that uh the will of the people of Kashmir  once the pbit is happened the referendum has  

16:11

happened they will be the decision makers of how  the relationship between Kashmir and Pakistan will  

16:16

be if they want to have an autonomy they want to  be merged with Pakistan whatever the relationship   Kashmir wants whereas India say that Kashmir is  an integral part of India both parts of Kashmir um  

16:29

to the extent that they even want to go to war to  with Pakistan um for the So-Cal recapture of the  

16:37

liberated part of Kashmir now India will use the  argument that Pakistani tribal forces an army but  

16:43

you know you can't let's leave the Muslim part of  this aside let's talk about history historically  

16:50

there are plenty of documented uh evidences  to provide that provide evidence that uh um  

16:56

the people after the world war they came back they  were veterans they were armed they were itching to  

17:01

go when they heard the Muslims inside the Kashmir  Valley were being massacred by the uh dogra ruler  

17:08

they wanted to liberate their fellow Muslims so  those are the people that came uh in in an attempt   to liberate the whole Kashmir land obviously one  part was liberated the other part unfortunately  

17:16

fell to the Indian occupation which continues  today and uh when we think about the demography of  

Article 370

17:22

of Kashmir in particular um overwhelming majority  of Muslims overwhelming always has been yeah  

17:29

uh so let's talk about article 370 because in  2019 the Mii government uh and ahed sha the H  

17:36

home minister uh they issued this statement uh  that they would revoke this really important bit  

17:43

of the Constitution uh which gave this autonomy to  kashmiris and and prevented uh the purchasing of  

17:51

homes and land by non- kashmiris uh that's now  been reversed and since then Kashmir has been  

17:59

I mean previous to that I think it's fair to say  that um it was a heavily militarized uh Zone but  

18:05

it's now become even more militarized so just take  me through the implications of that article 370 on  

18:11

Kashmir people please I can summarize 3703 VA very  shortly it is legalized settle colonization and  

18:18

demographic change legalized constitutionally  India had to amend that not only do they have  

18:24

to illegally revoke the articles that existed  for Kashmir which were supposed to be temporary   pending a referendum it is a conflict Zone it is a  disputed territory according to the United Nations  

18:33

so whatever India did was illegal to the extent  they had to amend their own Constitution first  

18:39

before they could fiddle around with Kashmir yeah  that Constitutional Amendment essentially means  

18:47

that non-muslims can come into Kashmir buy up our  land at whatever rate they decide and kick us out  

18:55

when infrastructure is being developed it's not  being developed for us when roads are developed   inside Kashmir has been most of the time it's been  for the military personnel to be able to move from  

19:03

one Barrack to another one territory to another  um the our traditional apple orchards and saffron  

19:09

Fields have been converted into shopping malls  and whatnot that's not our history that's not   our culture it never has been um the rice fields  the uh schools and hospitals have been taken over  

19:20

and turned into bunkers and Military Barracks for  the Army so this is basically legalized settler  

19:26

colonization and demographic change that has never  been seen seen before I mean yes we've seen it the   way that the Israelis have have done it but where  do you think the Indians have learned it from the  

19:37

zionists they are hand in hand they always have  been back so far back in history from the times  

19:42

of the 1920s they've had a relationship yeah  when the RSS were formed it was envisioned uh  

19:47

um maybe not directly with the zionists at  the time but more in line with the Nazis if   you look at the uniform of the RSS the parent  organization of the BJP which is run by moldi  

19:58

the uniform same as the Nazis the salute same as  the Nazis the vision the same as the Nazis do you  

20:04

remember what the uh um the Nazis philosophy was  one party one ruler one nation that's exactly the  

20:11

philosophy that has been translated by the  RSS for India that's more than 100 years ago  

20:16

the difference is they had patience they waited  patiently until the 1990s they only had one or two   members of parliament today they rule the country  three terms Modi has won landside victories and  

20:29

if he doesn't win the next one we know that  they're going to have somebody else he may not   individually win but somebody else will and what  is their agenda to continue that annihilation of  

20:38

the Muslim identity not just in Kashmir not just  in the rest of India if people know then they know   what the Muslims are facing inside India but the  vision that they have of one party One Nation one  

20:49

ruler expands Beyond The Sovereign borders of  India expands Beyond Bangladesh Nepal Sri Lanka  

20:55

even Beyond Pakistan all the way to Saudi Arabia  now in my introduction I I said that uh it's one  

Daily life of Kashmiris

21:00

of the most militarized places in the world I  think there's one where every one citizen there  

21:05

are 10 for every 10 citizens is one soldier um and  um uh what you've described there is a cultural  

21:13

demographic change but of course um it seems to  me that um Indian occupation is far more than that  

21:21

it's far more violent than that just set up the  sort of the daily life of a Kashmir for us please  

21:28

people have become so desensitized to violence  right we we see it regularly uh not just in our  

21:34

neighborhoods not just on the TV not just in  Palestine and the rohinga and Yemen and Syria  

21:40

we just see it so regularly that we don't it just  doesn't register with us anymore but for someone  

21:45

like me that's witnessed it firsthand my wife  tells me I still have night terrors um not I I  

21:52

mean I didn't know but apparently I have PTSD I've  seen and I've had to bury more friends and family  

22:00

with dismembered Limbs and their internal organs  on the on the roadside and having to pick them   up and take them to the burial I've done that  more times than I care to remember and this is  

22:10

not history I'm not talking about what happened in  1947 or 1836 I'm talking about what's happened in   my lifetime what I've seen with my own eyes seeing  mother's a particular mother that had been going  

22:22

from home to school every single day but she'd  always come back home empty-handed and I asked   one of my friends after a long time of seeing  this Reg I said why did she keep doing this and  

22:30

he said that uh her son had gone missing one day  he had gone to school and he never came home and  

22:36

for the last 12 years she goes to school every  single day hoping that one day she might see her  

22:42

son and bring him home again that's the reality of  Kashmir in 2019 when article 3735 a were revoked  

22:51

there was a complete shutdown in Kashmir no media  no internet no journalism no communication nothing  

22:58

m to the extent that it was such a strict curfew  that a woman that had that had tried to go to the  

23:04

hospital by foot that was about to give birth was  prevented and she had to give uh uh birth she had  

23:10

to give birth on the side of the road a still  birth because there was no Medical Aid people  

23:16

that had died in their homes or on the streets  were prevented from being buried in the um in  

23:23

the graveyard they were buried in their back  Gardens I'm only telling you what's happened   in the last 5 or six years I could tell you  from 1947 how in a matter of days a quarter  

23:32

of a million people were massacred a quarter of  a million people in a matter of days a genocide  

23:39

and ethnic cleansing in itself and that's been  happening ever since I can tell you about the   hundreds of thousands of Orphans the widows the  half widows do you know what a half Widow is a  

23:48

half Widow is a woman whose husband has been en  forcibly disappeared and she doesn't know where   he is now tell me as a Muslim can somebody  give that woman a fat and say to her can she  

23:58

get remarried or not is she still married or  not she's a half Widow and then you have the   orphans the hundreds of thousands of Orphans  you have the torture centers where people have  

24:07

had Nails pulled out from their fingers people  swear living in the localities localities they  

24:13

swear that they can still hear the screams even  though that that torture Center has been closed   down many many years ago the level of PTSD  that people have inside Kashmir probably  

24:22

one in two people I think the msf medicine sou  FL they said that one in two people have PTSD

24:30

the I mean where do I start I can I tell  you about the pellets pellets are illegal  

24:36

to be used on on on human beings and that is  the first use on people children as young as  

24:42

young as 18-month-old Hibba blinded in in her  eye while she was sitting in her mother's lap   inside her home what was her fault uh insha  Malik blinded in both eyes permanently wanted  

24:54

to be a doctor now she needs doctors children  uh as young as 5 years old that were taken from  

25:01

their mother's lap in the middle of the  night and arrested because they might be   a threat to the Indian State political  leaders nearly every single legitimate  

25:10

political leader inside Kashmir is in jail or  has been assassinated Jal andrai was picked   up from his home his body dismembered because  he was going to testify in front of the United

25:20

Nations so I mean I remember case studies I can  tell you the case studies from the Palestinians  

25:28

from the UR from the rohinga from the Iraqis from  Afghanistan over the last 20 years can you tell me  

25:35

about case studies in Kashmir as Muhammad Jalal  and that's the problem it's not just about what  

25:42

the situation in Kashmir is is that why is our  voice not reaching you it's not that we we're   not being heard our voices are there I'm here  other people are here we speak we do we we we're  

25:53

active where is the empathy and the sympathy or  the activism for the people Kashmir the stories  

25:59

that come out from Kashmir how many do you want  I have is part of the Jammu Kashmir Coalition  

26:05

of Civil Society he published many reports but one  of his most famous reports was cited quoted by the  

26:12

United Nations human rights commissioner is now  in jail over since the last 5 years that report  

26:18

is so important but how many people have read it  it is documented evidence of all the war crimes  

26:24

crimes against humanity ethnic cleansing genocide  that has been committed inside Indian occupied   Kashmir how many members of parliamentarians know  about this let's leave them members of what do we  

26:35

expect from elected officials how many of our  uh um masjids know about this how many of our  

26:43

organizations that claim to represent the Muslim  Community in the United Kingdom have talked about  

26:48

this how many have disseminated the information  freely that's where we stand right now M tell  

Assassination of uncle

26:55

me about your uncle uh he were he passed away my  uncle was assassinated after I made a statement  

27:04

in the United Nations uh regarding the arrest of  war criminals like Narendra Modi Amit Shah ajid  

27:11

doal um and many other people in the BJP um very  shortly after that my uncle was found dead in a  

27:21

very shallow River um and it was claimed that he  had drowned um I mean the river was about that  

27:27

deep I've been there I've lived there I know  that River and for a person that's lived there  

27:32

his whole life my uncle it just wasn't possible  that he could have drowned and the marks on his  

27:39

body did not indicate it was just a drowning  the gentleman had been assassinated my cousins  

27:44

languish in jail because of the work that I do  it's not just my cousins everybody I anybody that  

27:49

talks about Kashmir suffers um one of them still  is in jail and tortured regularly uh and asked  

27:56

about my my activities my other family members  either in jail or tortured under loudspeakers in  

28:03

2019 the New York Times had published an article  talking about how children as young as 5 years old   were taken to the local Masjid and tortured on a  loudspeaker to instill fear and Terror among the  

28:12

population happened to my cousin and it's still  happening to him so these are the these are the  

28:17

realities when we talk about the similarities  between Kashmir and Palestine yes our our   sufferings are very similar sometimes shockingly  the same but all perpet ated by our oppressor who  

28:29

are also shockingly the same the same philosophy  the same ideology the same tactics bear in mind  

28:35

that India have been the largest importer of  Israeli weapons in the world for the longest   time they share intelligence they Share technology  they share tactics I think once a year or twice a  

28:46

year uh their military personnel visit each other  to train each other in new forms of combat and  

28:52

occupation when the genocide in Gaza began I vowed  we would never let those responsible get away  

Become a member

29:00

with this silence was complicity in a world that  wants us to remain Placid a world that wants us  

29:06

to be concerned more about our immediate lives and  interests the system buys our souls in return for  

29:13

acquiescence with their empire building project  we at the thinking Muslim set about changing the  

29:21

narrative and in the process with Allah's Baraka  we galvanized our communities to confront these  

29:27

Pol iCal Elites and send them a clear message in  elections on both sides of the Atlantic we brought  

29:35

communities together and led the way encountering  their pernicious agenda such is the power of this  

29:43

New Media our mission is simple we want to build  an alternative Muslim media one that is rooted  

29:51

in faith thinking and enlightened activism and  we need your help to expand this sacred secred  

29:58

undertaking our plan is to turn the thinking  Muslim into a multi-show multicountry media  

30:06

project please help us by becoming a member for  as little as £10 a month you will have access  

30:13

to bonus shows behind the scenes content and Q&A  with me and my guests but most importantly your  

30:21

contributions will make this voluntary project  go to the next level and give you a share insh  

30:28

in this reward now I know the demands on Al  sadaka are great please do consider becoming  

30:34

a member of the thinking Muslim or send us your  one-off donations by going to thinking muslim.com

30:40

membership and may Allah subhana  wa taala accept from all of

30:46

us uh M your father I believe uh was the only  person in modern Indian history to be prosecuted  

Father’s resistance

30:56

for treason uh he was part of a resistance  movement of an Insurgency uh can you talk to  

31:03

me about your father and uh and the resistance in  in Kashmir the resistance comes in many forms as  

31:08

we all know um comes in armed political diplomatic  economic uh my father was exiled from uh Kashmir  

31:17

in the late '70s so um I was born in Saudi Arabia  in Exile um my father's activities leading up to  

31:25

that point involved being part of the islami J  Tali an offsho of the jamaat Islam he founded the  

31:32

youth Wing so even at that time they understood  that the war that's happening inside Kashmir was  

31:38

against Islam and the Muslim identity um by  profession he was a nuclear physicist he had  

31:43

a PhD Nuclear Physics um I think he was the first  nuclear physicist from north of India um LED alone  

31:51

from Kashmir but he organized along with other  people they organized conferences in Kashmir  

31:58

where the uh um Imam of Makkah had come to visit  so they they were doing a lot of activities but  

32:05

once we moved to the UK he continued The  Diplomatic and political efforts and of   course the representing the armed res resistance  to the best of his abil abilities and the reason  

32:16

for that is because armed resistance is a  negotiating tool it may not be the means to  

32:21

the end but it is a negotiating tool as we've  seen in modern history and in in past history  

32:28

that everybody believes that Solutions must be  made at the table negotiating diplomatically and  

32:34

politically but when the oppressor and your enemy  refuses to come to the table and says there is no  

32:39

issue there let alone the table there is no table  what do you do so my father was involved in all  

32:46

aspects of The Liberation movement and uh exiled  never to return home so he never saw the marriages  

32:54

of his brothers and sisters could never visit  his his parents um even after they died to the  

33:01

extent that once my father passed away in 2004 we  appealed that he be buried in his ancestral home  

33:07

in his ancestral land they denied it saying that  uh he was an Enemy of the State and a traitor um  

33:15

so I wear that badge with pride that uh he was an  enemy of India an enemy of the oppressor it's a  

33:23

certificate in itself I mean the Indian government  would argue that the resistance in kmir is very  

33:28

much uh a a proxy for the Pakistani government  and the Pakistani military in particular I mean  

33:34

is are there any grounds to that claim well the  indigenous organizations s Kashmir the trf the  

33:41

P majah all run by indigenous kashmiris yeah  some of them may be based in Pakistan some of  

33:47

them are still based in India some of them are in  Kashmir those that are living in India does that   mean that in that his or any of the organizations  are proxies of the Indian government the location  

33:55

of these organizations does not matter what  matters is that what is the role of Pakistan   the role of Pakistan has always been to lend  political diplomatic and any form of support  

34:03

to the people of Kashmir in any shape or form  if they provide politically which they do and   diplomatically which they do then we appreciate  it if they facilitate armed resistance and uh any  

34:12

other thing as well then I'm sure the people of  Kashmir will welcome that as well because again  

34:17

it is the only negotiating tool that exists so  being proxies of Pakistan makes no sense it's the  

34:23

people of Kashmir that are resisting India not the  people of Pakistan not the government of Pakistan   as as long as the people of Kashmir resists their  oppressor we will have friends anywhere across  

34:32

the world the same way that the Palestinians as  long as the Palestinian says that we resist the   zionists we will stand here we will stand and sit  and do whatever needs to be done to liberate the  

34:42

people of Palestine I mean how serious do you  think Pakistan is and Pakistan military are uh  

Pakistan intentions

34:47

when it comes to the liberation of Kashmir I  mean is there a seriousness behind uh behind  

34:53

their support or or they do they just use it as  one part of Le yeah against their um against their  

35:00

neighbor I can't speak on behalf of the Pakistan  military or the Pakistan government what I can do   is refer you to the recent statements of the chief  of Army staff of Pakistan yeah who said we fought  

35:10

three Wars against India of for Kashmir we can  fight another 10 Wars right recently on the 5th  

35:15

of February if people I I hope people know this  and I know they don't so um I I pray that they  

35:22

remember this the 5th of February is considered  to be Kashmir solidarity day on that day  

35:28

in aad Kashmir the liberated part of Kashmir  the Kashmir mujah annually they use the 5th  

35:36

of February as a as a day to gather the people  together to remind them that the Kashmir movement  

35:41

is still ongoing the the kashir mujah had been  seen on the stage with Hamas in the liberated  

35:48

portion of Kashmir right so when we talk about  what Pakistan's role is or what do they want to  

35:54

do I think the what we've seen over the last 6  months it's pretty evident that Pakistan fully  

36:02

supports all forms of resistance against Indian  occupation and tyranny most importantly against  

36:08

the annihilation of the Muslim identity I mean  the line of control between Pakistan and India  

War over Kashmir?

36:14

seems to be pretty static now and um uh both sides  they maybe for domestic purposes they talk about  

36:21

as you said you know as W he says you know he  can fight 10 more Wars and Baja used to say that  

36:27

and Sheriff used to used to talk about that and of  course Modi does that for his audience and and and  

36:33

the congress party used to say that as well but in  reality nothing has really shifted and and changed  

36:39

for a very long time um is that an indication that  a lot of this is hot air for public consumption  

36:45

but in reality um there isn't really going to be a  military solution to this conflict because neither  

36:52

side would entertain going to war over Kashmir you  would think that especially when both countries  

36:57

are nuclear powers and then you have China which  is right there that also has nuclear weapons and   on the other side you have Iran allegedly that  has nuclear weapons I use allegedly because nobody  

37:06

actually knows yeah um you would think they  wouldn't go to war but I remind you that the  

37:14

Indian Air Force had sent their pilot abinandan uh  to attack Pakistan yes and Pakistan returned him  

37:20

with some fantastic te as he as he said not not  Kashmir no unfortunately no I don't think he would  

37:27

have been able to tolerate that tea yes um but he  returned with tea now that was a test that was an  

37:34

experiment you have to realize that India is no  different to the zionists they they are cut from  

37:41

the same cloth they have the same Playbook they do  the same things to the same people they believe in  

37:47

a pan Nation they believe that Pakistan was a  mistake they believe it must be absorbed back  

37:52

into India they believe that Bangladesh needs to  be absorbed you know when sh Casina was asked from  

37:57

Bangladesh you know that the only country that had  the biggest problem was India yes it should make   no difference to them what difference does  it make that shik was Ed and somebody else  

38:04

came in but they had a problem the interference  that India had when Afghanistan was still under  

38:11

occupation what was the role that India had in  Afghanistan why would why did they have a base   set up in Afghanistan why did they continue to  have something in Tajikistan why are they trying  

38:22

to create something uh against the cek the Chinese  Pakistan economic Corridor this Chaba Court why do  

38:28

they want to counteract the cek with that well  why why is there so much influence in Nepal and  

38:33

Burma and Sri Lanka by the Indians yeah they have  an agenda the same way that The zionists Have And  

38:39

if you if we pull up a map I can show it to you  the way that the greater Israel map everybody has  

38:45

seen the greater Israel map I tell you go have a  look at the hindutva map they claim the holy Caba  

38:53

in Makkah our holy Caba as the meshwar Mahadev  Temple now Muhammad Jalal May laugh at this yes  

39:01

but the Hindus inside India are stch believers  in this really now we may have our own Iman and  

39:07

we say ah nothing can happen to the Muslims we are  strong and this and that what we've seen what the   Muslims have done with the Palestinians and Muslim  nations now if we have something called IM and do  

39:18

you think that the hind the the the Hindus don't  they also have a belief they also want to get  

39:24

stuff done they want to create their pan Hindu  Nation because they believe they are the the   superior Superior race the selected race the Arian  race they have an agreement with Israel you look  

39:34

at the map again that the zionists will take up  up to North Saudi Arabia and India will take the   rest they want to create that entire belt because  they believe that uh the entire world comes from  

39:44

India whatever their belief system is and however  much we ridicule it they still believe it now post   911 the West outsourced the war of so-call Terror  which was actually the war on Islam to India and  

39:57

happily accepted and that franchise that India  now has has become so powerful that they're able  

40:04

to tell the minister of external Affairs The The  J shanka his name is j Shaner who was recently in  

40:09

chattam house he's able to go to Washington DC  and when asked about why India is not putting  

40:15

sanctions on uh um Russian crude oil he said go do  what you need to do that's not our business that's  

40:21

your European problem he dismissed them like this  Americans used to do that and India used to be the  

40:28

yes sir no sir three bags full sir and now they're  the ones dictating terms because they took that  

40:33

franchise on the war against Islam and they've  been very successful in it so successful in  

40:38

fact that I would argue that they have been more  successful than the Zionist in Palestine because   you hear about what the Palestinians are going  through but you don't hear what the people of  

40:47

Kashmir are going through or for that matter what  the Muslims in India are going through so when   you ask no real war is going to happen between  India and Pakistan they're both nuclear powers  

40:58

but more importantly what is the war about is it  just about land is it about geopolitical strategy  

41:05

or is it about eliminating the Muslim identity for  a greater vision and a greater agenda so uh you've  

41:11

talked now about hindutva and Modi and uh the RSS  uh and and of course um there is a nazification  

Dangers of Modi’s ideology

41:20

of of the let's say the Indian identity um just  talk us through that what is it about Modi and  

41:26

his IDE ideology that's particularly problematic  for for kashmiris not just for kashmiris but for  

41:34

every Muslim every Muslim and not just limited to  the subcontinent I will go so far as to say even  

41:40

all the way up to Saudi Arabia I mean regardless  of what we think of Saudi Arabia but the Muslims   there should also be concerned the problem is  that you know again I'm I'm going to challenge  

41:49

you on this and say if you understand Zionism you  should understand Hindu that's the end of this I  

41:54

mean the question is over that's my answer I  shouldn't need to explain it more than that  

42:00

because honestly as much as I have studied read  researched on hindutva there is very very very  

42:09

little to make it different to Israeli Zionism  they believe in the same thing their relationship  

42:15

is is phenomenal I mean there was a time where  India uh were supporters of the Palestinian  

42:23

statehood and condemned Israel yet behind  closed doors were taking support from Israel   against their War uh for their war against China  that relationship has always been there so overtly  

42:34

it's been very different but covertly it's always  been the same their agenda is to eliminate the  

42:39

Muslims their agenda is to create a um a one party  One Nation one ruler uh uh system because they  

42:46

believe they are the chosen race I mean why are  the zionists doing what they do and what is their   agenda how far will they what are they willing  to sacrifice for it what are the influences that  

42:56

the zionists have no different to the Indians  but again where Israel have failed India have  

43:02

succeeded now you may say that Israel have not  failed I tell you they failed because everybody   knows what they're doing I tell you they failed  because they've been exposed at every uh corner  

43:12

at every step they've been exposed the speed at  which that they were pushing their propaganda   twice as fast it was being countered not by  States but by you by Me by everybody by the  

43:22

Joe public so that's where India are successful  and will continue to be successful so the threat  

43:30

that people need to understand is that it is  against Islam they've declared it openly it  

43:35

isn't a secret it never was a secret they're proud  enough to I mean so with such great pride they  

43:43

with their chests out they say this is what our  agenda is create concentration camps against the   Muslims and minorities eliminate the dalits and  the Christians on Christmas Day what they did to  

43:53

the Christians fine we're Muslims and we weep for  ourselves but my God if anybody Christian that's  

43:59

watching this look at what is happening to your  own Brethren inside India but again it may be a   race problem because you know they're brown  so therefore they don't really matter there  

44:07

are so many complexities to to the subcontinent  especially when it comes to the RSS agenda the the  

44:12

Hindu agenda the Zionist agenda and we should be  comfortable enough to say the Hindu Zionist agenda  

44:18

to make sure people understand it is one and the  same thing colors may be different but the people   are the same the world must be prepared uh for  fascism 2.0 we thought that we got rid of Hitler  

44:30

it was only reborn in the RSS and they've been  Bing their time they've been biing their time  

44:35

for a 100 years and they've started to implement  all of those policies today the ca the NRC bills  

44:42

citizenship citizens Amendment ship Act and the  national register of citizens the way that they've   created particularly Muslims and other minorities  as second class citizens to the extent that they  

44:51

created concentration camps in in Assam so what  are we waiting for why doesn't anybody know about  

44:58

this I mean are we literally waiting for another  Holocaust because it's already happened in Kashmir  

45:03

it's happened in many many places inside India  that's the Muslims around the world seem to be  

45:08

indifferent to us why is that what other the  tentacles uh of the the reach of this hinded  

Reach of Hindutva ideology

45:14

ideology I note that here in the west there seems  to be a a very cozy relationship between the Modi  

45:21

government and Trump and Modi government and and  you know the the British government here and and  

45:27

across uh Western Cut Nations there isn't this  alarm at um this you know this rise of fascism in  

45:35

in in India in fact uh the news very very rarely  carries stories of of uh the lynchings and the  

45:43

militarization of of Kashmir and the rapes and and  and you know the other horrible crimes that take  

45:48

place there so what is that relationship between  Western capitals and and Mii post 911 it comes  

45:57

I keep reemphasizing this because I think it was a  pivotal time it's when India were able to present   itself as a proxy for the West in the subcontinent  because they they the West wanted somebody against  

46:08

China uh it wasn't going to be Pakistan because  Pakistan and China have a phenomenal relationship  

46:14

um but you also have to remember the rise of  imperialism uh in this day and age again the  

46:21

American imperialism has always been there it's  never really died died down the Russians want the  

46:26

old USSR back we can see what they're doing with  the Ukraine yeah the Chinese and their obsession  

46:33

with Taiwan um the British and they're meddling  everywhere across the world of course India wants  

46:41

a piece of that pie they've positioned themselves  very well and very successfully as authorities in  

46:47

the subcontinent to no longer be proxies but  be the main players so when we think about Mii  

46:57

and and uh the relationship that he has with the  West he's continued that relationship where he's  

47:04

no longer just a proxy for the west but he's now  telling them that we can offer support to you for  

47:11

your things for what you need to do be it economic  look India is one of the largest uh um markets in  

47:18

the world and also labor class in the world after  the war that the West had against China and the  

47:26

Chinese losing a lot of their manufacturing plants  where did all that manufacturing go to it went to  

47:32

India it happened by Design the Indians are very  clever they play the long game um you know I think  

47:39

it was maybe Churchill or it was Lord mountbatten  that said that you can say what you want about the   Indians they have a lot of a lot of flaws but one  thing they're very good at is they're very good at  

47:47

being scap fants and the Indian government have  been siap fans for so long that they've managed  

47:53

to kind of turn the tables look at it this  way can you imagine somebody calling the prime  

47:58

minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain  and Northern Ireland as their son-in-law I mean  

48:04

culturally that's putting somebody underneath  your shoe as being submissive when Narendra  

48:11

Modi calls Rishi sunak his son-in-law and Rishi  sunak says yes sir I mean really the tables have  

48:18

turned that's the situation that we're in when  Indian spies have been caught inq and then return  

48:27

safely when Indian spies in Germany have been  caught and not been charged when the assassination  

48:32

of hard Singh ner in Canada and no consequence of  that was a seek separatist leader seek separatist  

48:39

exactly and then again the attempt in New York  in London um in other in Pakistan more than 20  

48:48

Kashmir uh leaders were assassinated there has  been no response I mean when when the zionists  

48:55

did it do you remember in I think it was Dubai  where they assassinated somebody yes there was   a big hhaa when and that was one or two I think  in terms of assassination of Palestinians uh um  

49:07

on that kind of level on that kind of in that  style it's only been a few times the Indians  

49:13

have been doing it regularly yeah not only have  we not heard about it but when governments have  

49:18

been approached and it's been submitted that  you know this is a case this is a transnational   repressive repression case they don't not only  do they not take it up if they take it up it's  

49:27

being dumped the next day because of the power of  India so going back to the point India are in a  

49:35

position in a very strong position where they can  I don't want to use the term dictating position  

49:43

but they are in a better negotiating position I  mean like I said they they were able to tell the   West you know leave us alone we don't need to  put sanctions on Russia on crude oil what are  

49:52

you going to do about it and then literally nobody  does anything about it so they're acting with imp   literal impunity um do you fear for yourself  I mean you're you're outspoken you live here  

Muzzammil Targeted?

50:03

in Britain and you travel to the United Nations  and you you speak for uh the Kashmir people um  

50:11

do you Fe that uh you can be targeted or have you  been targeted by the Indian government people are  

50:17

targeted in different ways um sometimes it's  physical a few months ago I was there was an  

50:22

attempt to attack me I suffered a broken rib  um alhamd I was able to return the favor by uh  

50:29

I don't want to say what I did just in case I  implicate myself in a court case um but uh the  

50:34

answer was was justifiably so um there are other  ways that we suffer um our families no longer  

50:40

communicate with us because they are arrested or  assassinated for being in communication with us   friends no longer are friends um I can no longer  travel back I'm on a hit list I'm on a Black List  

50:53

um there's been an I've heard there is been an  attempt to extradite me um so there are things  

51:00

that happen am I afraid a Muslim is only afraid of  his so the only thing that I'm genuinely afraid of  

51:12

is will I be able to face my Lord and say to him  that I did everything that I could in my power to  

51:18

liberate Muslims not just in Kashmir but around  the world I gave my time to the Palestinians   I gave my time to the rohinga I gave my time to  the syrians I gave my time to the kashmiris but  

51:27

was I be was I able to do them Justice give them  Justice and do justice for myself that is what  

51:35

I'm afraid of very few things that I'm afraid of  in this life you know people talk about spiders   and snakes I'm terrified of dying not because  it's the end of me but because I don't know I  

51:48

have no guarantee that I will uh smell even the  gates of Jenna that's what I'm afraid of have I  

51:56

done enough to attain that I understand that the  Indian government they uh prohibit your social  

52:03

media posts in in India and in Kashmir and uh  your voice is banned is that right I'm the new  

52:09

Jerry Adams really yeah so my voice they detect my  voice they detect my face and they detect certain  

52:15

I don't know how how they're doing this yeah so  anybody and it's not just if I share it if anybody  

52:21

else shares it the Indian government sends them  a message through the social media platform and  

52:27

says that um this is a criminal offense so yeah  this is the new reality this is what we're facing  

52:34

now yeah now for today's interview mam um I think  it's fair to say you've been quite angry with the  

Keep talking about Kashmir

52:41

response from the Muslim communities around the  world um is it not justified I I think it is very  

52:47

much Justified alhamdulillah at least at least you  agree with me I I I certainly do agree with you it   certainly is Justified and you know I I want  need to question you know once oneself about  

52:57

how much we raise Kashmir I mean we we had a few  shows on it in the past but how much we've made  

53:03

it a a a a a regular theme um and inshah going  forward we want to do that um but um how do we  

53:11

remedy this like in your mind how do we make sure  that uh within the Muslim communities especially  

53:17

here in the west where we do have a voice that we  continue consistently raise the issue of Kashmir  

53:23

uh on our agenda we start with you we start with  the thinking Muslim podcast we start by giving  

53:31

platform to the indigenous folk of Kashmir doesn't  have to be the indigen but at least you talk about  

53:36

those issues you talk about not just about the  violence being perpetuated on the Muslims but   also talk about what the oppressor is you know  sometimes I I think to myself maybe we can have  

53:45

a discussion about this at some point that as  Muslims Are we more concerned about the suffering  

53:51

of Muslims or are we more concerned about having  a hate figure to hate against to fight against  

53:57

it's a very strange question but sometimes I  don't I think that there may be a distinction that  

54:05

more sometimes people need an authority to fight  against and other people need to feel solidarity  

54:11

with an oppressed yeah and once we figure that  out I think we need to talk to other people  

54:17

uh um other organizations particularly those  organizations in the United Kingdom that claim   to represent Muslim communities without having  to necessarily name them but ' been around long  

54:27

enough they haven't done their uh uh ample they  haven't done ample work for Kashmir they've done  

54:32

it for everybody else but not for us and before  we ask them I think as angry and as as bitter  

54:38

as many kashmiris are and I'll I won't speak on  behal of them I'll speak about myself as angry   and as bitter I may be I still have hope because  I saw how the Muslim Community came together for  

54:49

all the other Muslim conflicts around the world  and it's not even just the Muslim conflicts even   in the United Kingdom how much Muslims give to for  example the food Banks how much they helped during  

54:57

the times of Co we aren't just the Muslims for  Muslims we are Muslims for everybody so if we are  

55:03

for everybody Kashmir are also Muslims our heart  bleeds the same way it bleeds for you as well the  

55:10

same way it bleeds for the Palestinians all we  ask is that that even if you don't bleed for us   at least keep us in your prayers you know there  is um there's a Hadith I think don't quote me on  

55:21

this correct me if I'm wrong that um when you have  knowledge when you have and you don't act upon it  

55:29

what is the name of that person I know what the  English word is it's called a hypocrite but in in  

55:35

the Arabic term it is so much more stronger that  even I hesitate to use the term because it is so  

55:41

heavy and I don't want Muslims to fall into that  category I don't want the mothers on the day of to  

55:48

say that you were all Hypocrites when I cried out  to the Muslim world you did nothing when M came  

55:54

here and spoke to Muhammad Jal and and and talked  to the audience and told them about Kashmir that   you still did nothing you're not answerable to  me you're going to be answerable to that mother  

56:02

that's still looking for her son after 30 years H  for example you're still going to be answerable to  

56:10

matu Who had who was killed with a tear gas shot  to the head and his parents don't know what to do  

56:16

with themselves he was the only son in the family  or the young girl that I met many many years ago  

56:22

that was a mute because she had witnessed her  entire family being either killed or raped and she  

56:27

was a mute for 10 or 12 years you're answerable  to her so the the the res it's not resentment  

56:36

it's just frustration that what does it take for  Muslims to be fair across the board that includes  

56:43

Kashmir what is it it's a genuine question do we  need to bleach our skin maybe color our eyes speak  

56:51

a different way is it our AA is it our clo what  is it what is it about the kashmiri Muslims that  

56:59

you cannot identify with do you believe you're  going to ever return to Kashmir in your lifetime I  

57:06

learned something from my father and he said to me  when somebody asked him the same thing and he he  

57:13

gave an answer but then he said to me in private  he said if you feel that you are going to liberate   or I feel that I am going to liberate Kashmir in  my lifetime I must be the most arrogant fool that  

57:22

has ever existed we hope for it we work towards it  but we lay the foundations for the Next Generation  

57:30

we don't want them to start from scratch again I  may hope for a liberated Kash in my lifetime but  

57:37

I'm preparing that if it doesn't happen at least  the tools should exist the work that has already  

57:44

been done that you can stand on their shoulders  and not have to startop from scratch again we are   products of our elders uh I can't speak on your  behalf but I'll definitely speak on my behalf I'm  

57:55

a product of the people before me yes I am only  be I am only able to do what I can do or speak  

58:01

the way that I can speak or do the activism that  I do for not just for Kashmir but anything because   of uh um Scholars and activists before us that  have been here for the last 30 40 50 years again  

58:13

without necessarily naming names because it would  be unfair for if I miss anybody out but they've  

58:18

been around it's on their shoulders that we are  standing today which means that we need to allow   the Next Generation to stand on our shoulders  once we're gone as well so what does a liberated  

Vision for liberated Kashmir

58:27

Kashmir look like I mean an independent state  or a state very similar to aad Kashmir attached  

58:32

to Pakistan doesn't matter as long as it's not  occupied we the people of Kashmir have come to a   point where we say that anything is fine anything  is fine as long as we are no longer occupied and  

58:44

as long as we our Muslim identity is protected  protected now I keep on saying this because our   masjids have become Mand they are now actively  turning our masjids into Manders into Hindu  

58:54

temples the daily morning prayer that used to be  in uru or in Arabic is now being turned into in  

58:59

into the Hindu language the history that we were  taught is now into Hindu mythology the identity  

59:06

of Kashmir is being replaced with Hinduism and the  Hindu hindutva people are too scared to speak in  

59:13

the Kashmir language just a couple of days ago  this is in the month of Ramadan just a couple of   days ago two imams were kidnapped from the Masid  preventing the prayer for what reason nobody knows  

59:25

and just a few a few weeks before Ramadan a young  man driving his truck a daily wager a laborer was  

59:31

shot was shot dead for no reason there has been no  accountability so when you ask what do we foresee  

59:37

what do we want as an end solution you wouldn't  ask that for the Palestinians why would you ask   that to Kashmir it's just liberation of our land  liberation of our identity to allow us to preserve  

59:48

our identity to be able to pray five times a  day to read the Quran and not have moodi or um  

59:56

a give their version of Islam on which by the way  they have tried they are manufacturing their own  

1:00:03

form of Islam and trying to impose it upon us so  what do we want we want to preserve our identity  

Kashmir’s beauty

1:00:09

I started off with the quote from uh that's  connected to jahangir um uh the mul Emperor  

1:00:18

who said that um if there was a place on Earth  it would be here it be here it be here um what  

1:00:24

is it if there was a heaven on Earth what is it  about uh Kashmir that makes it such a delightful  

1:00:30

place the mountains the trees the air the people  the language the cuisine the art the history the  

1:00:40

mids the the the the uh um just everything we were  part of the silk rout we have a 5,000 year history  

1:00:52

um it's rich in Heritage in culture I mean a lot  of it has of course been lost a lot of it is being  

1:01:00

re re um rebranded by India but those of us that  know or remember or have studied the history of  

1:01:09

Kashmir goes as far back as the times of Alexander  the Great where some argue that even he visited  

1:01:16

Kashmir at one point or his armies did at least um  they claimed that the Lost tribe of Israel is in  

1:01:21

Kashmir um so there is so much history for rightly  or wrongly the reason why it was considered to be  

1:01:29

paralyzed because of the weather the welcoming  nature of the people which has also been our   downfall because you're same as the Palestinians  but it's everything everything Muhammad Jalal you  

1:01:42

must visit Kashmir and you will see for yourself  you know uh they call it the Switzerland of Asia I  

1:01:48

tell you the Switzerland is Kashmir it's the other  way around in fact a long time ago uh the United  

1:01:55

Nations I think it was the United Nations or maybe  it was the the what was before the United Nations  

1:02:00

the world league na the League of Nations somebody  said that if you want to look at the epitome of  

1:02:06

communal Harmony look at Kashmir so was one of  the best places for everything the temperature  

1:02:15

the culture the Heritage the history the food  I keep on going about food because it's Ramadan   but genuinely the food if anybody's watching just  look up wwan look it up and let your mouth melt  

1:02:26

after inshah Dr M we'll visit Kashmir together  thank you so much for your time inan for having  

1:02:36

us and remembering the people of Kashmir thank  you so much when the genocide in Gaza began I  

Become a member

1:02:42

vowed we would never let those responsible get  away with this silence was complicity in a world  

1:02:48

that wants us to remain plid a world that wants us  to be concerned more about our immediate lives and  

1:02:55

interests the system buys our souls in return for  acquiescence with their empire building project  

1:03:03

we at the thinking Muslim set about changing the  narrative and in the process with Allah's Baraka  

1:03:10

we galvanized our communities to confront these  political Elites and send them a clear message in  

1:03:17

elections on both sides of the Atlantic we brought  communities together and led the way encountering  

1:03:24

their pernicious agenda such is the power of this  New Media our mission is simple we want to build  

1:03:33

an alternative Muslim media one that is rooted  in faith thinking and enlightened activism and we  

1:03:41

need your help to expand this sacred undertaking  our plan is to turn the thinking Muslim into a  

1:03:48

multi- show multicountry Media project please  help us by becoming a member for as little as  

1:03:56

£10 a month you will have access to bonus shows  behind the scenes content and Q&A with me and my  

1:04:03

guests but most importantly your contributions  will make this voluntary project go to the next  

1:04:10

level and give you a share inshallah tala in this  reward now I know the demands on our sodaka are  

1:04:17

great please do consider becoming a member of the  thinking Muslim or send us your one-off donations  

1:04:24

by going to thinking Muslim com/ membership and  may Allah subhana wa ta'ala accept from all of

1:04:32

us please remember to subscribe  to our social media and YouTube  

1:04:42

channels and head over to our website thinking  muslim.com to sign up to my Weekly Newsletter

English


Previous
Previous

Ep 216. - Dividing Syria: The Weaponization of Sectarianism with Hussam Ayloush

Next
Next

Ep 214. - Imran Khan: The People's Champion or a Populist Illusion? with Professor SherAli Tareen