Ep 206. - Gaza Will Resist Trump with Dr Azzam Tamimi
The announcement of Donald Trump at the press conference with Netanyahu had all the shock value we expect from the rogue president. How do we understand his intention to ‘clean out’ Gaza and turn it into a riviera, and how do Palestinians view this brazen ethnic cleansing?
To help us understand the we have back on the show Dr Azzam Tamimi, who is one of the leading Palestinian commentators and author of one of the most authoritative works on Hamas.
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Transcript - This is an automated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
0:00
Palestinians thought he was uh mad the Palestinians of today are unlike the Palestinians of 1948 we can often romanticize uh the struggle of the
0:09
Palestinians This Is Our Land we are not going anywhere the Vietnamese resisted the algerians
0:14
resisted the South Africans resisted so so long as the idea is valid and finds people
0:21
to carry it the resistance will continue the Palestinians are living in open prisons the Palestinian Authority has been the worst thing that happened to the pales Ian since the
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neba the announcement of Donald Trump at the press conference with Netanyahu had all the
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shock value we expect from a rogue president but how do we understand the intention to clean
0:44
out GZA and turn it into a Riviera and how do Palestinians view the Brazen ethnic cleansing
0:51
on show now to help us understand the subject we have back on the show Dr aam Tamimi who is
0:58
one of the leading Palestinian commentators and authors of one of the most authoritative works
1:03
in the English language of Hamas dram tamim and welcome back to the thinking
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Muslim delighted to be back well thank you for for joining us once again and and uh we're speaking in
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the week where uh I think it's it's not an ere exaggeration to state that there was a a wild
1:25
Announcement by Donald Trump uh together with Benjamin Netanyahu who of course of course was
1:30
very happy to hear uh Donald Trump announce that his intention was to in effect occupy
1:37
Gaza and remove uh the strip of its Palestinian population and so supposedly resettle them in one
1:45
of the surrounding uh countries it sounds like a very callous plan um I suppose my first question
Palestinian’s response to Trump
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is um how are the Palestinians responding to uh to this announcement well Palestinians thought
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he was uh mad to suggest something like this yeah they've endured 15 months of genocide and
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remained U attached to their uh ancestral land and now he thinks he can easily just remove them and
2:22
turn it into a Rivier or something uh but you see putting aside the uh incoherence of his idea and
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of of the language even he uses the idea itself is actually a repeat of what the British did more
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than 80 years ago this is what they did to to the Palestinians between 180 years ago because
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the Palestinians were living there were living in Palestine and then uh the British decided
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that the Jewish Problem of Europe could best be resolved d by uh dispossessing the Palestinians
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and bringing the Jews uh to inhabit the land um it's it's not a new idea it's the it's really
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what colonialism is about and it is exactly what happened to the Americans when the white man of
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Europe came armed with the Bible with all sorts of uh mythical bibl claims uh pretending to be the
3:35
Israelites and calling the red Indians or calling the indigenous population red Indians and calling
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them the Canaanites they depopulated America they exterminated the indigenous population
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the the the thing that really comes to mind is that since the end of the second world war the
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current the world World Order we've been living under tried to put um a more Humane face but now
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Trump comes and says stop the hypocrisy uh this is where we're what we're going to do because we've
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been doing it all along uh but of course what the British managed to do 100 years ago is impossible
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to do today yeah uh the world is different we've seen protests and rejections from all quarters for
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different reasons each rejection people have their own reasons but uh above all the Palestinians of
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today are unlike the Palestinians of 1948 I think they are much more aware they they they've learned
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from the experience of their uh grandparents and parents um and they're willing to put up
4:56
whatever resistance is needed I mean we can often romanticize uh the struggle of the Palestinians in
Will Gazans Leave?
5:01
particular this last 15 months we've seen just the sheer uh resilience of the uh the people of Gazza
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but of course you know one wonders um the place is now uninhabitable according to the United Nations
5:15
it's been it's been destroyed and even though there will be reluctance I mean how how many
5:22
Palestinians you think will uh decide that they may want to leave the strip because life is is
5:28
unbearable I supect for so many especially in the northern uh territories of of Gaza well nobody has
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asked the Palestinians directly I mean we we don't have any uh polls or the Israelis claim that if
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you offer the Palestinians way out they will all leave because this is what the Israelis wish to
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happen uh but at least from some of the statements we heard over the media and not just Al jazer even
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even the CNN BBC World Service whichever media that managed to have a representative interviewing
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people sitting on the rubble uh they all rejected the they clearly said This is Our Land we are not
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going anywhere and what really uh the irony here is that uh Trump claims he wants to solve
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a problem that the Palestinians have the problem the Palestinians have been having is the existence
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of Israel on their land is the Zionist occupation of their land and uh they simply ask this question
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why why doesn't Trump volunteer to take the Israelis somewhere else yeah instead of offering
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to remove the Palestinians from their land after all these Israelis are mostly of European origin
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um they never belong to the land respective of whatever false claims they are making to
7:08
justify The Invasion and the occupation uh and therefore they they'll probably be much more
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comfortable in America or in Germany as an act of atonement can you spell out the motivation of the
Motivation of Palestinians
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Palestinians because I I suspect many westerners many many materialists will probably find it very
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difficult to to understand that mindset that enables people to remain rooted to the land
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even though um you know the Israeli War Machine has has destroyed it like explaining words uh
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to to to our Muslims and our non-muslim viewers uh What uh what lay behind what lies behind that that
7:53
level of commitment to the land well at the basic level this is not a unique experience the the
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Palestinians are not the first people on the face of Earth or in history uh to be subjected to such
8:06
Colonial project the Vietnamese the algerians South Africans the nations of Latin America
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many nations in Africa and Asia yeah know how many people deserted their Homeland because of
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the hardship the colonial authorities create for them uh very few yes of course there are a few
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who uh for for their own personal reasons prefer to go somewhere else yeah but the majority prefer
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to resist the Vietnamese resisted the algerians resisted the South Africans resisted so what the
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Palestinians are doing is a natural human response because they are the victims they they've been
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attacked they've been invaded But one can add to this the fact that majority of the Palestinians
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are Muslims and uh Muslims have this faith that uh If you defend your land and if you die in the
9:06
process of Defending Your Homeland especially when that Homeland has Al AA which is the first K of
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the Muslims and the third holiest mosque on the face of the Earth then the rewards are enormous
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that is divine rewards and if you are killed you are a martyr and if you suffer your suffering will
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be recompensated very soon uh so there there is an an element of Faith here um and and that's
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the the that's what we saw in Gaza uh people were being hammered day and night and then when they
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are asked how are you they'll say alhamdulillah praise be to Allah many people around the world
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were uh astonished I mean what what what's wrong with these people there's nothing wrong with them
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because it is part of their faith that uh if they uh undergo a tribulation of any kind a test um a
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crisis whatever uh and if they show patience and if uh if they show resilience then uh they will
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be enormously rewarded can you comment on uh the I don't know if it's duplicitous but the duplicity
Hypocrisy of liberals
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we see amongst um let's call them liberals in America and Europe who have um stood silent
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to uh for these last 15 months and and uh have actually helped uh the Israeli War Machine but
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after this week's Announcement by Donald Trump have roundly condemned Donald Trump for um uh
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for for calling for ethnic cleansing I mean it seems to be a a um uh you know a a a a problem
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in in the mindset here about uh when it comes to Palestinians um um let just talk to that apparent
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hypocrisy well the objection to Trump varies I mean why people object I'm sure that most people
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object because they find Insanity in what he is proposing yeah um but I think the intellectuals
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are truly worried that this is marking the end of the world order uh they've um happily lived under
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since the end of the second world war but we've had 15 months of genocide where the world order has that is true but uh that genocide could have been overlooked could have been I don't
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know Justified probably in in various ways especially with the Israeli propaganda that
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Hamas started it and we are responding and all the lies about Hamas doing things that
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they never really did uh but remember that this world order claims to be a rules based order and
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now not uh Trump comes to do away with all these rules so what sort of world are we going to be uh
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living under so even if you didn't care much about the Palestinians from the point of view of those
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who really didn't care uh they care that today Trump is dismantling the rules-based world order
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no longer uh rule of law no longer the values of democracy and human rights no longer uh any of
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those values that many Western governments used to put a beautiful face when they deal with the with
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the others so so I think there is there is real concern this is not uh what Trump is doing is is
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a very serious thing but as you intimated there it is a Shad and a lot of it is window dressing
Trump and US Empire
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you know what Trump has done or does is similar to what his predecessors have done but they've
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shown a a a a nice face I mean isn't in a sense uh what Donald Trump doing better for for this
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world because he's no more than displaying the true intent uh of uh of this American Empire uh
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I think the difference is that Trump doesn't care about uh pretending to be benevolent pretending to
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be humanitarian that that is of no concern to him whereas previous the previous administration in in
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Washington yeah provided the Israelis with with a killing machine but at the same time uh paid
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lip service to human rights to democracy uh and that worked for many years uh I mean America since
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the beginning since the end of the of the second world war has been committing war crimes all over the world uh but they always justify this they're either fighting the Communists or fighting Islamic
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terrorism or fighting drug cartels or doing this or doing that there's always some sort of a an
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explanation so that what they're doing uh doesn't seem to uh contrast or contradict the rules
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upon which the the the world order is based now Trump is just shredding all of this he's
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putting it down and he's saying I don't care I'm going to do it for tourism reasons and we
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turn it into a Riviera and uh while he wants the the the population of the world to come
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and enjoy themselves in Gaza the Palestinians can do whatever they like somewhere else um
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you see the the it is still it is the same racism that we've been uh complaining uh from but I think
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it this time it's uh entirely unmasked um when the British the the depopulated parts of Palestine in
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preparation for the Zionist to come and do the rest for them when 750,000 Palestinians were
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removed from their homes in 1948 there was no concern whatsoever for the Palestinians uh yet
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it was justified in the name of recompensa the victims of the Holocaust um Trump has no
15:47
justification he doesn't need justification might is right we can do it then we will do it that's the and that's the difference can I ask you to comment about the resistance and where it is
Level of resistance
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at the moment now you've written probably one of the most extensive works on Hamas in the English language and um you followed Hamas quite closely in terms of our political and and and Military
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leaderships um where is hamus at the moment and the resistance in general at the moment and do
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you subscribe to to to the uh the idea that in a sense um the ceasefire marks the victory of
16:28
of this resistance well it marks the defeat of the Israelis because they haven't clearly they haven't
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been able to achieve any of their objectives um now the resistance movement has been wounded
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there's no doubt about this and has been to a large extent uh been uh uh maybe stripped of
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some of its uh military power yeah however we go back to the the same argument that this is an idea
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and the idea doesn't die um now how intact and how strong the resistance is still today I'm not
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sure I don't know I have no information uh but I was uh surprised like many people around the
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world to see Alam Fighters come out of the rubble uh organize the delivery of the Israeli captives
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yeah in an orderly manner uh and putting on a show of force uh despite the fact that most probably we
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already know of course some of their top leaders have been killed that most probably a large number
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of their top leaders have been eliminated yet these young men um have carried the idea forward
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so so long as the idea is valid and finds people to carry it the resistance will continue and you
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talked there about the hostages um uh can you talk to the disparity I suppose between the
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treatment of hostages on the Palestinian side and hostages on the uh Israeli side
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well the Palestinians and this the the the resistance in particular uh imate from the
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values of Islam in treating the the uh the captives I prefer to call them captives because
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we the Palestinians also are captives in Israeli detention camps uh so there are captives here and
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there are captives here the Islamic rulings on the treatment of captives has been observed to
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the full by Hamas and by the other factions that held uh those captives because that's part of uh
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the Islamic tradition and part of the Islamic faith and you you saw them come out quite quite
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well healthwise apparently they were fed well uh clothed well taken care of whereas on the
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other side the Israelis treat the Palestinians worse than they treat animals probably they have
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a lot more compassion for animals than for the Palestinians yeah and we saw that some of the
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Palestinians actually were coming out of prison like uh caveman uh some of them almost at the
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at the edge uh of losing their lives uh and they they told stories about how they they were treat
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especially since the 7th of October 2023 how the Israelis uh were torturing them regularly how they
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reduce their uh uh food intake daily food intake and on the way out of prison how they humiliated
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them and beat them constantly until they were free and here we find two completely different
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civilizations two completely different cultures two completely different uh uh Visions I'm not
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talking here about Islam and Judaism because I know many Jews who uh respect human rights who
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respect human and who condemn Zionism like we do condemn it exactly but Zionism itself is a is a
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is a movement is an ideology that is anti-human that is so racist supremacist that doesn't see
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that the other deserves to be treated as a full human being and that's the difference whereas in
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Islam whether you like the other person or not Islam tells you how you have to to to treat them
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do not let your dislike of people uh make you swerve away or make you be treat them unfairly
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be fair be just that's closer to piety that's an Islamic principle whereas Zionism believes that
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if you are a Zionist you are superhuman you have Divine qualities and a Divine license to
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kill the other to take their land and to do to them whatever you like I me much of what we've
Narrative swung?
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seen over the last 15 16 months especially in the last few weeks is is uh the command
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of the narrative and uh I think it's it's fair to say that the narrative has SW swung away from
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the Israelis and and moved in in a very positive direction which we haven't seen before uh but but
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the the narrative that the Palestinian iions are um uncivilized still is maintained especially in
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the mainstream media um I mean how do you assess I suppose the point about the narrative and where it
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stands at the moment but also uh in in a greater way I mean how can we uh counter this um this sort
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of barbarism versus civilization narrative that many of the western press still maintain uh uh
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you know even though the the reality is obvious in front of them I think the problem we have is
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is that the mainstream media in the west is not free when it comes to Palestine they are under
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constraint they are under control I'll give you an example I was watching the BBC World Service
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uh yesterday when I was in Rotterdam and there was a lady interviewed in the studio and the
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lady was referring to the uh icj and the IC these two top courts World courts and the conviction
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the the the ruling that Netanyahu and others in Israel are accused of genocide of of war crimes
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and the uh presenter was terrified she immediately responded saying well the Israelis would respond
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and say that they do not accept these charges yeah when the BBC does not have respect for the the
23:28
two highest courts in the world I mean what remains of Integrity of of honesty and of decency
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in the in the mainstream media and I think what uh changed uh uh the balance in terms of whose
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narrative uh is more acceptable or more authentic is the Independent Media the social media uh and
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the uh young men and women around the world who have defied the establishment they've gone against
24:03
their own establishments against their own um university managements uh and tried to Open
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the Eyes of the world to see that the Palestinians have always been the victims and their design have
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always been the aggressors I think this is what has uh made the difference and this has pushed
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uh certain segments of the mainstream media to realign uh because we've we've we've seen a slight
24:34
change whether we talking about the CNN or BBC or sky or whatever uh or even the newspapers the
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main newspapers around the world under pressure from the independent uh um uh media outposts
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they had they they had to to realign themselves returning back to Donald Trump's announcement um
Trump’s negotiation tactics
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very is speculation that Donald Trump as a means to negotiate starts with a maximalist position
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a very Hardline position and then negotiates down and so the uh the assessment is that uh he insists
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on on this clearing out project of guaza not as a as a as a a final goal as an intent but rather
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as leverage over Regional plays and over Hamas and and the Palestinians I mean how much do you
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buy that analysis look what Trump has said May um ironically have completely adverse uh effects look
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at the response of some of the strongest allies of the United States of America in the Middle
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East Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia in particular I was listening of course there's Prince turil FAL
25:53
has been outspoken in this regard and yesterday I was listening to a Saudi journalist speaking from
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jeda and this is what he said to Trump instead of removing the Palestinians from their Homeland
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why don't you take the Israelis away and and uh have them settle somewhere else yeah for
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the Saudi and of course a journalist in Saudi Arabia wouldn't be speaking to an international
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Outlet like the BBC without consent from the higher authorities I think Trump has annoyed
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almost everybody in the region and probably more around the world um because it's just unbelievable
26:37
what he what he has proposed not only that I think his um business uh like thinking doesn't give him
26:49
the chance to assess the likely repercussions the any attempt to remove move the Palestinians from
26:59
Gaza by force or from the West Bank by force is likely to engulf many more uh countries
27:08
in the region in the war instead of keeping it restricted to Gaza or to Janine or to to to to
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t and I I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Trump will realize this uh in a few days and will
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change his mind like he did on other issues Dr tamim I was speaking to uh Abdullah Alder the
Saudi Arabia’s normalisation
27:29
son of Salman Al AA recently and uh he said to me that there is no real willingness within the
27:36
Saudi establish in particular with NBS who's now the de facto strongman of of Saudi Arabia to uh
27:43
to really cut a deal which is uh which leads to some form of justice for Palestinians uh but but
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you know more so that many of these soundings are leverage uh for um for for more uh for for Saudi
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interests in particular they want this NATO style peace agreement with the uh with the Americans um
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uh do you believe that the Saudis are going to normalize in spite of of the Palestinians and
28:16
their claims I don't think they will normalize if they believe that the deal on the table might uh
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threaten their own existence today Trump uh suggested that Palestine should be in Saudi
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Arabia imagine I mean yeah uh what would be the response of the Saudis in this regard if you
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bring the Palestinians into Saudi Arabia you think that will step will keep the regime stable yeah
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that's what that's how they're thinking they want stability they want to remain in power they're not
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doing it out of love for the Palestinians they're doing it because they now feel that Trump uh has
28:59
has gone well beyond what is acceptable of course Muhammad bin Salman Muhammad bin Zed uh CeCe King
29:09
Abdullah of Jordan and many others in the region would probably have been ready to do business with
29:16
Trump but not in this way Trump is not giving them leeway he's just gone beyond imagination
Egypt and Jordan
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and and so on on that subject Egypt and Jordan um of course the Americans do have leverage over
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these countries military aid and and uh uh trade um how how how much do you think uh at the moment
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they're they're very clear they do not want the repatriate or the patriation of of of Palestinians
29:46
to their countries uh but how much do you think uh the Americans have leverage over over these these
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governments and and and can use that leverage well the Americans have had a lot of Leverage but now
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what they're doing they're telling these countries we're proposing something that might finish you
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off so how how can you accept something like this yeah the and the expulsion of the people of Gaza
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will certainly be followed by the expulsion of the people of the West Bank um because if there is a
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precedent that will be followed on and there will be no more Hashim mites in Jordan uh the nature of
30:30
Egypt will change um and if the Palestinians no matter where you put them they'll never
30:39
forget that Palestine is their Homeland they will continue to work for the return and uh you look
30:46
at the world now Palestinians live in Australia as Australian citizens in America as American
30:51
citizens in Britain as British citizens in Africa in Asia in Latin America everywhere there are
30:58
hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Latin America when it comes to Palestine they'd
31:03
work for the return to Palestine it doesn't disappear it doesn't go away but Trump's idea
31:11
creates problems for his own allies and I think that's why they are worried it it's now become
Trump triggered ceasefire?
31:17
uh conventional wisdom that Donald Trump was in in a in a sense the uh the main trigger behind
31:24
the ceasefire agreement and um pushed if not kol Netanyahu to sign that peace uh that agreement
31:31
that ceasefire agreement now uh with this recent announcement and the condition that Trump has set
31:38
that Palestinians have somehow got to leave their land I mean do you how do you see the prospect of
31:43
that second phase of the ceasefire holding I mean is it very plausible that the Israelis
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will use this as an excuse to um uh to to once again um destroy Gaza I think it's become uh
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apparent now that Trump Trump's idea about taking Gaza and removing the Palestinians um was probably
32:13
not um a sudden thing yeah it didn't come out of the blue it must have been thought over between
32:24
him and some of his closest Zionist allies in Israel as well as in the White House and that
32:31
now makes me think that most probably when he pressed for a ceasefire agreement to be
32:39
uh uh made he had in mind that once the hostages are retrieved then we can go back to War uh and
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that's why now Netanyahu is speaking that language he's is talking in these terms uh but I wonder I
32:57
mean these people never learn learned lessons I mean what more can they do to the people of Gaza what more destruction uh can they bring about in order to bring them down to their knees 15
33:11
months of genocide didn't do it so how many more months uh will they will they do it again uh can
West Bank tensions
33:20
I turn to the West Bank because of course uh the West Bank has there's been very worrying signs of
33:26
of um of tensions in the West Bank including with the PA and and and we spoke about this briefly in
33:33
our last uh conversation um Trump did say that he's considering he's mooded the idea that uh
33:41
the sovereignty of the West Bank could be given to the Israelis um uh how uh how anxious are you
33:50
I suppose that uh the West Bank is is is next it is definitely next and uh it I had my suspicions
33:59
that uh Netanyahu agreed to the ceasefire because most probably he was promised uh the annexation of
34:09
the West Bank uh now in reality much of the West Bank had already been annexed even if
34:16
not officially uh but in day-to-day practice the Palestinians are living in open prisons
34:24
throughout the West Bank it's been uh cut into pieces shredded um life is hellish and now the
34:34
Israelis can enter any area and start U destroying houses like they did in Gaza uh and Netanyahu has
34:43
his um Coalition Partners to appease so he trying he's trying to reassure them in order to maintain
34:51
the the the cohesiveness of his government that he has not given up uh on the various uh religious
34:59
Zionist dreams if one may call them so so yes the people of the West Bank are very anxious
35:08
they expect the worst but at the same time uh I think the majority of the Palestinians uh will
35:16
just resist and the role of the Palestinian Authority in in what's happened over the last
Role of PA
35:23
few months as well as the action that the Israelis have taken in Janine uh and and other other places
35:30
in the West Bank I mean again we briefly spoke about this in in in our last conversation uh but
35:36
how do you how do you rate or assess the uh the actions of the Palestinian Authority over this
35:42
last year and a half the Palestinian Authority has been the worst thing that happened to the Palestinians since the neba had it not been for the existence of the Palestinian Authority much
35:54
of what the Israelis have done to the West Bank they could never have done done the confiscation
36:00
of land the demolition of houses the banishment of uh people the uprooting of olive trees the
36:07
burning of crops uh the building of settlements and the expansion of existing settlements all
36:13
these actions are possible because they have a Palestinian body uh that provides protection for
36:25
the Israeli troops as well as for the settlers while they they're committing all these crimes
36:31
uh Against Humanity uh so the Palestinian Authority is just is is a scandal it's uh
36:41
as I said it's the worst thing that ever happened to the Palestinians finally I want to ask you a question uh maybe more closer to home um Ramadan is coming up and many within the Muslim Community
Ramadan and activism
36:53
would be turning to spiritual practice and wanted to gain closeness to Allah subhah wa ta'ala and
36:59
you know of course we've had this year and a half of genocide and um I I don't know I mean often uh
37:07
we start to demarcate our personal from from the from sort of from the global and separate our uh
37:15
our Justice related activities to our personal ibadat and spiritual activities um how does one
37:23
remain consistent spiritually internally but but at the same time uh remain wedded to these
37:31
Islamic concepts of Justice which require them to think politically and require them to engage
37:36
in activism and and boycotts and and the rest of it it's really a question of what one understands
37:43
Islam to be and what does it mean to be a Muslim for the early generation of Muslims during the
37:49
time of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam the month of Ramadan the month of fasting and the month of Twi and the month of um all these social uh special social uh activities uh was
38:06
also the month of jihad the major battles uh in defense of Justice in defense of Truth and in
38:14
defense of the umah took place in Ramadan so the a true Muslim would not separate between acts of
38:23
spirituality and acts of uh Jihad in defense of the ummah um and I think this is what we need to
38:30
rebuild uh especially among the Young Generation okay the older generation may Allah be with them
38:39
I mean if people are used to a certain lifestyle it's difficult to change it after 50 or 60 years
38:46
but I think uh young Muslim men and women need to go back to the S of the Prophet sallallahu
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alaihi wasallam to grasp what it means to be a Muslim truly H is it really enough to just
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fast the month of Ramadan and at night go and do thewi in one of the mosques and then feel happy
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about having done my bit while our brothers not only in Palestine but around the world are being
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subjected to all sorts of atrocities or I need to think of something more more more positive
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in terms of my duty toward the umah uh and one of the early things that we need to do is to come
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together in order to counter the uh actions of the Zionist Lobby in this country as well as in the
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West in general we are being silenced we are being uh intimidated uh into not expressing support for
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justice around the world and something has to be done about this we have to be defiant yesterday
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my lecture in Rotterdam was supposed to be at the University of Rotterdam and then under
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pressure from the lobby the university cancelled it and it had to be held in in one of the local
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mosques uh what what is the role of the Muslim Community in this regard do we allow universities
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and other establishment institutions to get away with uh closing Avenues in our face and
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placing restrictions on us we are not committing a crime we are simply standing by truth and Justice
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and we want the world to hear uh our side of the story that's all we're doing nobody is resorting
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to violence or to terrorism God forbid or to any such things yet The Establishment with all
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its official as well as unofficial institutions uh is bringing pressure is is placing pressure
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on the Muslim Community and Muslim individuals across Europe young men and women in the Muslim
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Community need to come together and enter into Coalition with others who may not be Muslim but
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who are Justice supporters and let's form a global movement against this Injustice can
Islam and Justice
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I uh follow up on that and and I I get questions from Young Muslims who say that and and maybe this
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comes from um some Scholars within our community that that uh we don't have the spiritual tools uh
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or we haven't refined our spiritual character sufficiently enough to be uh involved with uh
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activism so there is this linear um conveyor belt that one needs to First have a level of of Iman
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and and TAA before one gets involved with politics and activism um is that how you see um as someone
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who's who's experienced Muslim Community for many decades here in the west is that how you see
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um Islam and and Justice now those who make such Preposterous claim do they have um a means of
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measuring spirituality that if you reach a certain level then you can go and perform Jihad that's
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ridiculous KH who fought against Islam as soon as he embraced Islam he became a warrior for Islam
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he didn't go into a school of spirituality and entered into a Circle or a or an and spend years
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of uh educating himself before he defended the the truth and Justice spirituality is needed all the
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time and that can that is a continuous process but at the same time you have to be active you cannot
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uh stand uh helpless and motionless uh while you the oppress ERS are persecuting their victims
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the way we see in Palestine and elsewhere in the world that's not acceptable that's not the Islam I understand if there was one piece of advice you can give to a young Muslim who is um trying
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to reacquaint and and and get closer to their Dean and and Islam during the month of Ramadan um apart
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from reading Quran and you know and and fasting and and doing acts that bring them closeness and
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nearness to Allah in terms of what is the one thing you you would recommend they do uh to
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sharpen their um uh their their understanding of of This Dean well proper knowledge to start with
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and also the spousal of the concept of solidarity as a Muslim you are supposed to express solidarity
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toward your brethren your fellow Muslims uh who are oppressed in the world that's that's part
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of the dean that cannot be postponed so how do we come about uh uh vitalizing or U energizing
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this concept of solidarity if we want to express solidarity toward the Palestinians how do we do it
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we need to come together sit and think listen to experts um join hands build coalitions and see how
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we can change things for the better so that that that solidarity is delivered somehow um but to
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uh say that there's nothing we can do and I'm content uh just sitting in a corner in a MOS and
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reciting the Quran which is of course beautiful and needed and doing all the other rituals which
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is a must of course uh and then I have I don't have to do anything else no solidarity has to
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come uh into into the equation has to be part of the process thank you so much for your time
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today please remember to subscribe to our social media and YouTube channels and head
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