Ep 203. - Gaza: Victory and Betrayal with Amr Abdul Latif
The Gaza genocide has come to a pause, with the hope that a ceasefire will remain in place. The details of the deal has allowed many to return to their homes, shattered by a deliberate attempt to destroy all infrastructure. The West remains accomplices and its media have shamefully misrepresented what has happened.
Last year we spoke with Amr Abdul Latif, from Gaza who told us about his life growing up under this brutal occupation. Today we have him back on the show. Amr Abdul Latif who was until recently, a resident and citizen of Gaza. He came to the UK to study his post graduate degree at St Andrews University and now works in the UK.
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Transcript - This is an automated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
0:00
it's a very tough scene to imagine 10 to 15 years of memories and and life just Vanishing
0:05
one of my uh cousins lost her husband in the last few days before the ceasefire from your
0:11
assessment um how strong or weak is Hamas today and as long as the occupation exists
0:17
people will try to resist it that just shows how much the Palestinian people especially in Gazza feel about the Syrian Revolution when my father went back he told me there's nothing here
0:30
Thea genocide has come to a pause with the hope that a ceasefire will remain in place
0:36
the details of the deal has allowed many to return to their homes shuted by a deliberate attempt to destroy all of gazza's infrastructure the West remains accomplices and its media have
0:48
shamelessly misrepresented what has happened last year we spoke to Amar Abdul Latif from
0:54
Gaza who told us about his life growing up under this brutal occupation today we have
1:00
back on the show Amar Abdul Latif was recently a resident of Gaza he came to the UK to study his
1:07
postgraduate studies at St Andrews University and now works in the country and welcome back to the
1:15
thinking Muslim happy to be here well it's a I I don't know what emotion to show um because we see
1:24
Joy on our screens but also we see immense sadness uh I know you're from the north of the country and
1:30
you've you've uh your family ended up uh residing in the South during this horrendous 15 months
1:38
just uh I don't know give me your Reflections on on what you've witnessed in this past week hmer first of all I'm happy to be here and uh I think the the show is uh is doing an immense job
1:48
um at bringing awareness and uh keeping the uh the Palestinian issue alive at this very critical time
1:56
so um yeah I appreciate that um I think the past week has been overwhelming um people are still
Reflections on week
2:04
questioning is the ceasefire going to last or is it not going to last and that's the main question
2:10
people are are thinking about but also at the same time they're thinking about how can we you know um get uh get by uh our basic needs how can we get our basic needs met how can we provide for
2:24
our children um and that's a very uh critical uh question for every go at this moment yeah um
2:31
generally on the political perspective you see um you see people being able to return people a lot
2:38
of people gave up on the idea of returning to Gaza City and the northern districts uh but we still
2:46
saw people return in huge numbers uh from the south uh my family is included in that as well um
2:54
so generally people are happy to be able to return to see uh what has happened um if you listen to
3:01
PE to interviews especially live interviews of of people on the way on the Journey Back you see how
3:07
uh people have very very different opinions uh but mostly they speak of being able to see the
3:15
rubble of their houses put a tint on the rubble of my house and sit in that Tint that's what
3:22
people say they want to do um it's better than living in uh in the South where you know no one
3:28
basically because you fled to an area you don't usually go to um so other people are thinking
3:35
about how can we get the bodies of our relatives and friends out um and it's a very tough scene to
3:42
imagine especially with the uh with the amount of Destruction that's uh that's been done but at the
3:48
same time you see people celebrating the fact that they're able to return as well as the fact
3:55
that um they managed to get Israel not to achieve its objectives and that in itself is considered
4:04
some sort of a uh a plus let's say I don't like to use the word Victory uh after all the uh after all
4:13
the massive destruction and all the sacrifices I don't like to use that word and I think um on a personal level I think it's a uh um it's difficult for a person to say that word without
4:27
U without thinking about what what it could mean to people on the ground that have lost tens of
4:34
people in their family and in their friends if you classify as a victory that would definitely hurt
4:41
them I think um but we can get to we can expand on that point later on um but I mean yeah people
4:48
are generally uh happy about being able to see the remains of their houses the people uh they've uh
4:55
they've not seen for 15 months now um but there's huge pain about everything we've lost and there's
5:02
realization that this could actually hold and what are we going to do with the amount of Destruction
5:11
so just you know Express to us that amount of Destruction explain what your family witnessed
Level of Destruction
5:16
when they returned back to their hom in Gaza City um so so my father went back first and my um and
5:24
my brother accompanied him as long along with one of my sisters that was split from her husband
5:30
on the way back her husband didn't go uh to the South yeah so that split uh resulted in huge pain
5:38
obviously um but they went back immediately as the uh as the way was open immediately I advis them
5:46
not to I was kind of uh afraid the Israelis would break that because it's such a humiliating sight
5:53
for them to see everything they've been trying to achieve that ethnic cleansing from the entirety of the Gaza City and the Northern District um all of it just fall apart so I thought they would
6:06
bomb it but thankfully they haven't so far yeah um so yeah they she's met her husband she's seen
6:12
she's seen him she's happy to see him after 15 months but for my father for example he's lost
6:20
his house um we had a uh an apartment building I don't know how you describe that but it's a
6:27
house with several floors my floor for example is on the uh second floor my brother's on the ground
6:34
floor my father and my mother on the first floor um that's all flattened there's nothing left um
6:44
so you're talking about 10 to 15 years of work just Vanishing in thin air um and 10 to 15 years
6:53
of memories and and life just Vanishing um and I think that's a huge toll to have on a person
7:01
especially especially older people um to see the the work of their life just disappeared um so my
7:09
father took that um it it hurt my father I I think one of the things he said to me is
7:17
I don't want to go see it he just doesn't want to go see the rubble uh we're fortunate though
7:24
um we're fortunate so my family we have other options um so my father is sitting in a flat
7:31
with my mother right now um my sisters managed to go back to the remains of their houses and
7:36
thankfully they weren't completely destroyed they were damaged but they're salvageable like you can
7:42
make them work uh with a little bit of Maintenance um so we're much more fortunate than other people
7:49
but also coming to realization like U my uncle for example was killed by an Israeli a in this
7:55
War uh my cousin his son was killed in the same uh strike as well um not in the same strike actually
8:05
when he was taking his body to the hospital they bombed his uh his van on the way um and they also
8:13
killed two of my cousins from my aunt's uh side um and then they continued to kill people from
8:21
the family and obviously were not the only people were actually much more fortunate than others but
8:26
there's like 35 people from My Father's Side uh were killed in this war by Israeli air strikes
8:34
artillery and things like that um four people from my mother's side one of my uh cousins lost
8:42
her husband in the in the last few days before the ceasefire um in a bombing that just targeted
8:51
a group of people just chatting in front of a building so uh it's a huge toll but what makes
8:59
it easier is as the as it's ongoing people don't feel it that much you feel you feel the grief
9:06
and pain as it strikes but then you're thinking everyone's kind of in the on the same boat so you
9:14
don't feel it that much but when when everything comes down that's when real grief starts hitting
9:21
and I think that's the uh that's what we're getting to right now as gazin generally so uh
9:30
I think we're we're looking at a very difficult time coming um hopefully less difficult than the moment that went from the outside uh you said at the very in in the answer to to to my
Victory?
9:40
first question that um you didn't you can't you find it difficult to use the word Victory but
9:47
of course you also said that uh Israel's plans were th thed I mean you know Israel wanted to
9:52
ethnically cleanse at least the north of Gaza and it was forced into this um humiliation really and
9:59
it it now uh is in a situation where it has to see large numbers of people return uh to Rubble
10:06
to their homes to their partially destroyed or fully destroyed homes uh why did you find it
10:11
very difficult to to call this Victory because you know outside and this sounds very callous actually
10:17
but outside we're all calling it a victory there's an emotional difference um I don't know how to say
10:23
this uh in English but there is a a difference between a victory and and your enemy failing to
10:32
achieve their objectives yeah you could Define that as a victory and and of itself but if you
10:39
want to say a victory out loud yes you're saying that as well to the people on the ground if the
10:45
people on the ground hear the word Victory some of them may be delighted that's true some of them
10:50
call call it a victory themselves I've seen people that have lost way more than I've lost and they call it a victory and they're very proud of it but at the same time I can't bring myself to say
11:00
a victory because I didn't live through it um I didn't pay the the same sacrifice that the people
11:07
on the ground have paid I find it very difficult to use that uh to use that terminology yeah um
11:14
when I haven't um when I haven't sacrificed as much as them yeah um but I do realize I
11:23
do realized that the Israelis haven't achieved their objectives I realize that they've uh We've
11:29
certainly um we've certainly gone back yeah um we've achieved you know people are finally
11:37
seeing their uh their prisoners come out so I want to tell you a little story actually about
11:43
this one of my one of my sisters calls this a huge Victory here she's very happy about it even though she lost a lot but um she she's a teacher and during the the genocide she she made a school kind
11:59
a kind of a school intent to teach children and things like that so she collected a group of teachers and they made their own kind of project um so one of her
12:13
students has her father in Israeli prisons and he's there for eight life sentences eight life
12:23
sentences in Israeli terms I think they have a life sentence is 100 years not 25
12:29
years uh like in other places so like he's in for 800 years and he came out in the deal in the first few uh I think in I think in the second deal
12:44
right he came out but she was absolutely struck by it and she my sister mentioned
12:50
the story to me yes she said imagine this little girl she's like 14 13 and she's thinking
12:59
for my father to come out and for me to see my father why does my friend's father have to die and for a 13-year-old to say that thing it it makes you wonder about the prices or
13:14
the price or the toll that was enforced on the Palestinian people generally but specifically
13:20
the Gin yes um not only by the Israelis but all their accomplices as well give me a reaction to
Cost Gazans paid
13:26
the following comment I'm going to make I've met with many I met with Muslims in the UK and they
13:32
would say something like the people of Gaza have paid a price for preserving the land and for uh
13:40
for keeping um keeping sincere against this oppression they're committing themselves to
13:46
a rebat against you know the occupiers and uh and there's there's this overwhelming feeling but the
13:53
people of Gaza has has paid you know a a a high cost that it's for a virtuous reason I mean tell
14:03
me about how you respond to to something like that I think that um to be honest I you may consider
14:09
my statements a a little bit uh controversial statements like that leave a lot to wish for
14:17
in terms of empathy like I think people need to realize that the gazen people are just people in
14:23
the end um we're people we have emotions we have dreams we have hopes like we're not a people that
14:30
is just committed to uh a single thing that uh that want to achieve it in any way possible like
14:36
we are a people we have a lot of people that think what you've said all right um and that is uh true
14:46
but there's also a lot of people who don't a lot of people who think nothing is worth the sacrifice
14:51
of my children nothing absolutely nothing is worth me losing my children uh one of my sisters
14:57
thinks that uh um so for someone from outside to say things like that it may be um it may be
15:10
appropriate in certain scenarios but I think generally it's uh yeah I think generally it's
15:16
hurtful to to hear things like that especially when the sacrifices for Freedom the sacrifices
15:23
for the freedom of ala the freedom of Palestine is not a thing uh um that should only be put on gazin
15:31
or just on Palestinians imagine the following scenario imagine if the war had happened yeah
15:38
and Israel was left alone the Israeli entity was left alone to fight and fend for itself it didn't
15:45
have the Americans behind it it didn't have the Germans behind it or the British um intelligence
15:50
behind it things would have been way different but you have a world war against a besieged people how
16:01
do you expect uh how do you expect them to come out you know victorious in mat in material terms
16:09
I think if you say things like that you have to make sure that you have um the responsibility and
16:16
you're acting for your responsibility to be able to say statements like this it's just something
16:22
I feel but I'm pretty sure people would feel differently about this there's a there is a good
16:27
portion of gins who Gaz and Palestinians who feel this um and feel like they've they've achieved a
16:34
huge Victory like even people that have lost a lot like I know a person um who's a doctor he's lost
16:44
his entire family Wife and Kids everything he's 50 something years old and he keeps talking about
16:50
how this is something um in the core of Islam that we have to be patient we have to be uh um
16:59
persevere uh in this uh in these circumstances we have to do it and when it ended he proclaimed
17:07
that this was a victory even though he lost everything so I know people that have said that and feel that but for someone who's not taking up the responsibility that he has yeah
17:16
or they have I don't know if it's appropriate I sense from your from your voice and your
Sense of Betrayal?
17:23
tone you feel a sense of betrayal is that is that a right word to use generally when you
17:28
think about betrayal you think about who do you expect to come to your Aid generally yeah so if
17:35
you're talking about that you'd expect people if we look at Gaza specifically you'd expect people
17:42
with resources people with um identity that that are similar to you in Identity or people that are
17:50
close to you in geography and I think that's also like an Islamic kind of U thing um yet when you
17:59
look at it when you look at it about what happened in Gaza you see you saw Lebanon stand up you saw
18:05
Yemen stand up and do do something yeah they try to do something and they've paid a heavy price for it both countries but what have you seen from the majority of the uh of the people that share the
18:21
same identity geography and resources you've seen uh in terms of armies obviously no Army
18:28
a little bit um you don't expect armies to move you expect countries to at least do something you
18:34
know it doesn't have to be armies moving for the defense of Palestine even though that's something
18:40
you would wish for um what you'd expect countries to be able to let in food and water why did our
18:48
people have to starve and go into absolute famine um so that sense of betrayal is expensive and
18:59
it's not just me that's feeling it it's it's the majority of uh it's all of the gazen people generally betrayal from other Palestinians for example um in other parts of historic Palestine
19:11
in the West Bank you've had the you've had people doing some things in in some parts of the West
19:17
Bank but the majority of the West Bank was just you know observing uh obviously the P the PA has
19:23
a huge part to play in this for repressing people and everything but still you'd expect the people
19:28
to be able to do something same thing for the uh Palestinians in the occupied territories
19:33
in 48 they've done absolutely nothing they like even the protests they had like two protests the
19:41
entirety of the war that I know of maybe they've done more but they haven't done much of anything
19:46
even political plays none of them were played the representing parties for Palestinians or
19:52
Arabs in the Israeli occupation government they have Representatives not absolutely nothing too
20:00
so that's only on the Palestinian side but you've had jordanians protest that hasn't achieved much
20:06
of anything but they did protest the Egyptians a little bit but you haven't seen much of any you
20:12
haven't seen a coordinated effort in uh either in Palestine Jordan or Egypt or any of the close by
20:20
countries even turkey like has played a negative role in this um none of them did anything to stop
20:27
what was happening through their countries um the Jordanian uh land bridge that was sending supplies
20:34
to Israel like that existed yet have we heard of any any group of jordanians trying to stop or you
20:42
know protest that specifically I do remember I do remember seeing calls to protest um the land
20:49
bridge uh on the street that were really heavily repressed but the same time I haven't seen um
20:58
I think the people of Gaza deserved for what they've sacrificed a lot more than what was
21:04
given definitely I mean do you feel that um in a sense um Egyptians they're with you jordanians are
People vs Regimes
21:13
with you I mean everyone is with the Palestinian people and and are against this but of course the
21:19
oppression of the regimes are such that uh to voice that even that opinion in Egypt uh can be
21:26
very extremely dangerous I mean do some empathy for the very fact that these oppressive regimes
21:33
are are repressing uh those voices that are pro Palestinian um absolutely like I I do believe
21:41
that the that the repressive regimes are playing a huge part in trying to stop the people from doing
21:47
much of anything yeah I believe that but that doesn't repressive regimes can stop popular uh
21:54
um actions like uh people protesting and things like that they can uh dispel protests but people
22:03
can do way more than just that so we've seen for example um in the um what's it called the uh the
22:14
journalists Society in Egypt uh protesting a few times and the things they've said the protest
22:21
they've done absolutely beautiful yeah Ian I'm just thinking the malls in Dubai are full they
Personal Responsibility
22:29
you know the instagrammers across the Muslim world are still instagramming their Banquets
22:34
and their food now I I don't know I mean I I see this and then I see people starving you know in
22:42
in uh in Gaza and you know I get it I get that these regimes are oppressive but surely there
22:48
is some personal responsibility I I I I believe that as well so that's what I'm trying to say
22:54
um but you don't have to look far like the uh the balls in raal are full as well so you have to look
23:01
too far um can I ask you about the circumstances surrounding the ceasefire I mean it's very clear
Ceasefire and Trump
23:07
now that probably Trump uh lent on Netanyahu and forced this ceasefire through um is that how you
23:16
read it and is that how the people of Gaza read it um so yeah basically it's it's very obvious right
23:22
yeah it's obvious that Trump wanted this to stop uh for whatever reason he wanted it to stop but
23:28
did um and that just maybe raises the question was Biden really doing much of anything to stop it or
23:36
were we really hearing true stories about how mad he is at Netanyahu and how uh tough he's being
23:43
yeah um I think this is uh this has become very clear that the Biden Administration just didn't
23:50
want to do anything uh they they supported this and wanted it to happen uh through and through
23:59
but when Trump came in he just wanted change so that's what we're seeing um but we're not fool we're not foolish right um the people in Gaza are not generally foolish we have we know
24:11
that Trump is mainly The Reason Not mainly but partly the reason why everything has happened
24:17
that has happened has happened because he pushed the Abraham Accords in the first place yeah um and
24:25
the Abraham Accords slowly started encroaching on Palestinian rights and um the realization of
24:30
Palestinian goals which was at least in the clear terms uh what the Arabic State the Arab states
24:36
wanted but we've seen that uh slowly bit by bit the Arab states are taking different stances and
24:44
ignoring or bypassing the Palestinian uh cause to uh you know normalize relations and create better
24:51
opportunities economic opportunities basically for themselves uh which you can understand to create
24:57
economic opportunities for your country is a good thing but you don't have to do it on Palestinian blood um obviously um so Trump was pushing this so hard that it resulted in everything we're
25:09
seeing everything we've seen and everything we're seeing still and uh we're not stupid to u to also
25:16
say that Biden was a little bit better because when Biden came in he didn't reverse any of it
25:21
uh when Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem huge thing uh for Palestinians uh I mean a huge
25:28
point of pain for Palestinians yeah Biden didn't move it back he could have done at least the
25:35
Democratic parties uh declared um goals when it came to Palestine yeah he did not none of it so
25:44
that's what people see people realize the these things and people don't really differentiate much
25:51
uh in terms of um I see a lot of people that don't different differentiate much between
25:57
American Administration people just see all of them are basically the same all of them to us
26:02
are basically the same they want to uh they want to fight us basically because we're standing in
26:07
the way of their projects so they want us either quiet or gone so uh people realize that uh Trump
Gazans to move?
26:15
has U announced that he wants Jordan and Egypt to take uh more people from Gaza he talked about
26:22
cleaning up Kaza um I mean do you believe uh there will be a take up from the from the people to to
26:29
move to these countries I think you'll need to understand several things to uh to understand
26:38
what's happening or what could happen MH um we've seen massive massive amounts of Destruction yes
26:44
when my father went back he told me there's nothing here and he can't see any semblance
26:49
of anything he said I couldn't even recognize the main streets um I saw a video from the uh
26:58
right opposite our house right a video of the entire landscape in all directions there's
27:03
absolutely nothing so if I go to my House's area I wouldn't even recognize my house imagine that
27:09
yeah so there is that much destruction there is so much infrastructure damage that there is no water at all from in in G Gaza City and the north uh Northern District so that much
27:25
destruction is there Palestinian people do not want to leave their land generally but people
27:32
also generally want opportunities want to feed their children want to uh f for themselves and
27:37
I think that was partly um the uh Israeli entity goal um in inflicting mass destruction to force
27:46
people to just find ways to live um but even in that they failed to even they failed to even uh
27:56
convince other countries or anything to provide a way for people to leave you had Egypt saying you
28:01
have to pay 5K per head to leave Gaza and it's it it it didn't even work out for people that wanted
28:08
to leave for them to leave so if an opportunity arises I think there is a uh a portion of the
28:15
gazen people that that would want to take it a portion that would want to take it um because
28:23
of how much destruction there is and how little to know hope there is in terms of rebuilding in terms
28:30
of uh uh political uh Avenues in terms of uh in terms of a solution being implemented yes we don't
28:42
see any of that we just see kind of if if we're lucky a turn back to the status quo and a turn
28:51
back to the status quo is the least thing anyone wants we just want Palestinian Freedom Palestinian
28:57
opportunities people to have their rights again yeah and uh that hasn't been realized um so some
29:05
people if the opportunity actually arises some people might take it but I think the majority
29:11
of people wouldn't anyway because we we're just stubborn like that I think the majority of people wouldn't some people disagree with me so I've had this discussion with a few friends some people
29:20
say yeah a lot of people would leave I think a a minority of people would leave yeah I mean you'd
Strength of resistance
29:25
imagine that some maybe younger people would leave and and their families remain in in Gaza I'm just trying to work out whether the intended aim of the Trump administration of the Israelis is in effect
29:38
to clear out as they say Gaza by uh opening these avenues for for people for for an exodus um um you
29:47
know there is a a conversation that um um has been perennial I mean it it comes up often in in the
29:55
western press about the future Administration of Gaza and and this is where we get it to the
30:01
resistance and Hamas and its role of course they've said they won't tolerate Hamas coming
30:07
back into Power I mean from your assessment um how strong or weak is Hamas today I mean you can
30:15
um you can just look in the um in the photos you see in the media yeah um and the photos coming out
30:21
from Gaza obviously the resistance still exists in all the different parties of of resistance
30:27
still exists Hamas included um so uh in terms of power they've they've obviously been weakened a
30:35
lot but they still exist and they will always exist because their existence is Reliant upon
30:43
um the occupation's existence because they want to uh free Palestinians and as long as the occupation
30:50
exist exists people will try to resist it in in whatever means possible to them um and no one talk
30:58
about the root cause like that everyone's just talking oh how is Hamas or how is the resistance going to deal with that or deal with this well the resistance is a natural reaction to the occupation
31:06
and how much damage we've been uh we've been taking from the Israeli entity the occupation
31:13
entity is just um continuously making lives of Palestinians harder to this day there are people
31:20
being killed in Gaza for example like uh today I read the news of one fisherman fishing in the sea
31:28
in Gaz was killed by the Israeli forces patrolling near the sea I mean patrolling in ships on the sea
31:35
so this is a daily occurrence so how do you expect people not to resist that so even though they've
31:43
been weakened a lot they will always exist so you'll have to come to uh you'll have to come
31:48
to an understanding of how do you want to deal with uh with their existence rather than how do
31:54
you want to eradicate their existence because they will always exist there is no way around this um so um in terms of administration though a lot of people in Gaza don't want the majority
32:07
of people don't want a way back to the status quo they want a way for lives to be rebuilt at
32:15
this point after everything we've seen they just want their lives rebuilt in some way
32:20
um and currently you don't see you don't see the international Comm Community including
32:28
the Arab states and everything providing much of an opportunity for that rebuilding uh an
32:35
actual opportunity you see a lot of talk yeah but in terms of U action you don't see much of
32:40
anything so to be honest I'm not really that much optimistic when it comes to that how do
32:45
you feel about the release of the hostages the Israeli hostages and just their state compared
Palestinian Prisoners
32:51
to a lot of the what we see of the Palestinians coming out of um uh of detention hi I think it's
32:58
uh it's it's open for everyone to see right it's a it's disgraceful what what's been happening to the Palestinian prisoners it's one of the main reasons uh you had parties uh come to existence
33:10
resistance parties come to existence because the situation for prisoners is getting worse and worse by the years and uh when Ben came in he made it several times harder for them uh to just live
33:22
their normal prison life yeah um I I think that situation is absolutely disgraceful and when you
33:30
see the the Western countries and everyone seeing this yet not speaking up about it or trying to do
33:38
something about it it's mind-blowing especially when you see how we've been literally under a
33:45
mass bombardment yet yes you saw uh resistance Fighters trying to you know take care of the
33:54
prisoners they had give them food even though it was so scarce and let them out in good health
34:03
condition in a good health condition and that you you can hardly find a single Palestinian prisoner
34:09
that comes out in a good health condition you can't see it so all the Palestinian hostages
34:16
that are coming out you saw you saw kids and women majority of them had you could see the
34:24
bones through their uh through their skin so how how do you expect people not to want to stop it
34:30
in any means possible to them um I think that's a that's one of the main problems in the uh in the
34:38
Palestinian uh in the Palestinian cause um people trying to come up with ways to free prisoners and
34:46
so far the only way that has worked we've seen is this um there was a one time during the oso
34:55
Accord that some prisoners came out but they were only Fighters prisoners like that but I
35:01
mean that's what we see and it's a huge problem for the Palestinian Society um when we last spoke
Syria and Palestine
35:11
uh there was a conversation between you and I about uh Syria and um of course at that time
35:18
Syria was a different country to what it is now and um a lot of the backers of Syria in particular
35:24
Iran um were um uh at the backers of the Assad regime um you know were also quite at least in
35:32
some shape or form helping the resistance right um uh we get conflicting views on social media
35:39
about how much the new Syria the liberated Syria is appreciated by people of Gaza have you had a
35:45
chance to have conversations with people back home and and how they see uh the new government
35:51
and in new Syria and The Liberation good question actually so the majority of people I know in in
35:58
the majority of them the vast majority of them are couldn't be happier about ID's downfall they
36:05
couldn't be happier one of my sisters um the one I mentioned that would say you know nothing is worth
36:12
sacrificing my children or whatever like I I can't imagine losing one of my children for any cause
36:19
whatsoever she did mentioned by the end of the war in the group chat she said look if everything that
36:27
happened happened because God was just preparing the way for the syrians to achieve their freedom
36:34
then it's worth it and that kind of struck me especially coming from her um and that just
36:42
shows how much the Palestinian people especially in Gaza feel about the Syrian Revolution because
36:47
we we feel it's very similar to what we've been through yes uh that mass bombardment mass killing
36:53
starvation and also the besieged uh people in idlib for so many years people in tents for so
37:01
many years like we've seen all of those phases and a lot of people in Gaza were following it event by event day by day um and feel strongly about it so when Assad fell everyone was so happy
37:15
everyone was celebrating yeah um obviously there are a few people who don't uh who didn't want us
37:21
to happen but even those people think about this uh think about it from a strategic perspective as
37:29
look this is detrimental to the Palestinian cause because Asad probably helped some two
37:34
Palestinians 30 years ago um so they think about it from that perspective but the vast majority
37:41
just uh couldn't be more delighted about it um but where we differ uh and where we have many
37:49
diverse opinions is on the future Administration or the current Administration and then hopefully
37:55
future administrations to follow yeah we don't see much of anything yet from that Administration
38:03
obviously it's only been in power for a month and a half now yes so you don't expect much of much there but we don't know how it's going to go you see people being skeptical about it
38:14
especially in how everything had happened like how everything happened or came to happen uh in there
38:20
but generally generally people are positive about it and want to see good things happen
38:27
the syrians uh because we just feel a lot of resemblance to them uh do you think the
Will ceasefire last?
38:33
ceasefire will last well everyone hopes it will um with everything we've been through in the in
38:40
the past 15 months no one wants us to come back but people are really scared because we see a
38:47
ceasefire agreement that is very fragile um it's not very clear you see a lot of ways the Israelis
38:54
are trying to break it and they're actively breaking it every day in different ways creative
39:01
ways sometimes but it's continually happening so how long can it last and also you have to keep in
39:08
mind that generally there aren't that many cards to play for the Goen people at this moment so if
39:18
Israel makes any decision if the Israeli entity decides to break the agreement tomorrow the only
39:26
thing that could stop it is basically the the prisoners in Gaza U by saying we have some of
39:34
your people left here if you want them out that's that's the general way I think would uh that would
39:40
be but so people are very scared about this and people are uh you know scared especially because
39:49
of phase two because you're going to open the ra border and you're supposed to be letting in for example 200,000 T 60,000 car for people to live in like temporary places but you haven't
40:00
lit in a single thing you're only letting in some some food supplies and in some areas too so for
40:08
example in Gaza City my father says he only has access to some drinking water and that's it uh so
40:16
he went from the south to Gaza City and he can't find anything to drink I mean he he can only find
40:22
a little bit of water to drink and nothing to eat so is that that that is absolutely not sustainable
40:29
but it's already breaking the ceasefire agreement uh so if that continues you're actually holding the Palestinians in or the gazin generally in a in in an enclosed place with little to nothing being
40:41
l in in a place that is filled with as gruesome as this sounds but it's true thousands of dead
40:51
bodies under the rubble right and this is an area after after all of that destruction that is it's
41:00
very possible that diseases will start coming up you don't want that to happen or you're going to
41:08
have a massive number of deaths in the span of a few weeks so um people are really scared of
41:16
these scenarios people are really scared yeah I mean is there any hope for reconstruction in the in the short to medium term uh when you think about reconstruction generally people are split
Reconstruction?
41:26
about this right um you have people thinking um we if we were to judge by how everything
41:33
had happened um from before uh October the 7th we had uh multiple uh aggressions against Gaza
41:45
from the Israeli entity yeah so in every single time you had people talking about construction
41:54
organizations coming up some countries uh make a lot of noise about it but in the end you you find
42:00
little to nothing being implemented on the ground so people have almost always not seen a single
42:08
thing in terms of uh efforts of reconstruction you see some projects being built that's true but
42:14
it's not related to reconstruction efforts yeah uh for people that lost their houses so that's if we
42:20
judge by past experiences but some people say with the scale of Destruction this time that it has
42:27
spanned literally everything with the possibility of disease with the possibility of this Mass
42:33
problems arising something has to happen or there will be consequences to literally everyone um in
42:42
the region so it can't this is unsustainable but you don't see the political will anywhere
42:49
to implement any kind of real solution that that accepts Palestinian resistance as a fact it exists
42:57
it will not disappear it will continue fighting until Palestinian freedom is achieved so you
43:03
either want to help or uh you find a solution you have to find a solution for the Palestinian
43:09
cause yeah uh there is no circumventing it there is no bypassing it so for me personally I'm not
43:15
that optimistic I think something will happen in the middle of these two things where actual reconstruction is implemented or nothing is implemented I think something in the middle may
43:24
happen where you'll have reconstruction efforts but in the exact way the Israelis want it to
43:30
happen uh so it will make it harder for resistance efforts to come from the newly constructed places
43:37
this kind of idea and they've already implemented it once in Janine um in the past so that kind of
43:44
idea might be uh you know uh float might float around some some countries might take it up and
43:52
try to implement it but any solution any kind of temporary solution that nor Palestinian resistance
43:58
is just doomed to fail and do you think the resistance is stronger now how's it perceived
Gazans on resistance
44:04
how is it perceived by by ordinary Gins um so people are very split like always yeah um there
44:13
are people who celebrate the resistance every day and are very happy about seeing the Israelis being
44:20
you know uh not achieving their objectives being humiliated in losing some uh in losing some of
44:27
their objectives yes so some people are very very uh excited and happy about this and praise the
44:34
resistance and everything and you see it in the media like it's you don't need to hear it from me but also some people on the other side are like look we need a solution and here's the point I
44:43
want to make right we've seen the epitome of what the Palestinian resistance could achieve right
44:51
armed resistance I mean could achieve we've seen fighting for more than 15 months people coming up
44:57
from under the rubble to fight you've seen like crazy things yet in terms of results we've only
45:05
seeing mass destruction and things like that it definitely didn't collapse and it definitely will
45:11
not collapse but will this bring us any closer to Palestinian freedom is Palestinian Freedom even
45:19
achievable through Palestinian actions in general when we see a World War happening against small
45:29
and Tiny Gaza with more than the equivalent of 10 hirosima Hiroshima bombings uh or more even in the
45:38
span of a uh in the span of months on a very very very tiny plot of land with nothing to it you see
45:48
you start asking questions like can this even be achieved so I think a lot of people are uh Happy
45:57
because they can claim that Victory without sacrificing anything without U taking much
46:04
of the responsibility on themselves and obviously we see a lot of people that take up the responsibility and try to do good things but see we see a lot of people just not
46:13
doing much of anything and expecting that oh those people will definitely do it those
46:18
people will uh look at them they're very stubborn they're very strong their IM their faith and it's all good things it exists patience and faith and everything is core values are are really
46:28
core values in in the gazen mindset uh and I I expect also the entire Palestinian mindset but
46:35
at the same time there's a huge responsibility for every person of humanity let alone you
46:41
know Islamic values to want to do something or everything in their means to bring this to an
46:49
end especially when there's several world that are willing to take up the fight for 15 months
47:01
or more or as long as it takes against this small group of people you have to come to an
47:07
understanding that people need to come uh people need to rise up and try to join in the resistance
47:17
effort to stop Israel from its actions to bring about Palestinian Freedom he uh I
47:27
I don't know it's it's very difficult to talk about this because generally people have the idea that the gazen people are very stubborn and they're very strong and they're able to do
47:35
things yes and that's true but there's limits to everything and since we've seen the limit
47:42
what are we doing about it my last question to you really uh is is about Hope um do you as a
Hope in future?
47:49
Palestinian as a gazin uh have hope in the future of of of Gaza as a viable place for your family
47:58
to thrive and survive in in the future I don't generally I don't like the the idea of splitting
48:06
Gaza from the rest of Palestine uh when describing it for example on the question on the uh that you
48:12
mentioned before and sorry for turning back uh the administration of Gaza yeah yes um I think
48:19
I alongside the like all of Palestinians want something that represents Palestinians right so
48:27
um it's not one party doing one thing or one other party doing one thing no people need to be able to vote in the people they want you know proper democracy do whatever they um uh bring in people
48:38
that represent them into power and that that spans the entirety of the Palestinian Society
48:44
it's not Gaza only it's not the West Bank only it's not Jerusalem only it's the Palestinian group
48:49
of people a Palestinian Collective that needs something to represent it and uh that that new
48:57
government or entity or whatever you want to call it could have some plans for Gaza specifically
49:03
because of the situation that happened but it can't be split from the rest of Palestine and
49:10
any sort of rhetoric to want to split it I think is problematic um so generally that's uh that's
49:16
something I think the majority of people feel uh is needed uh on your point though about hope
49:28
I do have hope you can never lose hope if you're you know if you're Muslim you can't lose hope I
49:33
do have hope that um what we've seen we've seen really good things happen at the same time as
49:39
we've seen really bad things um we've seen people uh on the streets in in in many countries we've
49:47
seen we've seen initiatives really proud and good initiatives um around the world trying
49:53
to do something and that's very very good to see we've seen Israel being humiliated like uh on the international court of justice and the international criminal court so you've
50:03
seen really good things happen so you're hoping that the future might be uh or would be good for
50:12
the Palestinian cause in general based on the sacrifices that the Galen people have made um
50:19
so yes I'm happy and U optimistic that that would happen and I cannot lose that optimism
50:27
but the situation right now uh the Contemporary situation is it's very difficult um it's almost
50:39
unlivable so I would want my family to be able to live but obviously every every person makes
50:49
the decisions for themselves uh I mean one of my sisters would uh would trade nothing for
50:54
her to leave like you you can't imagine imagine uh how much she would uh she would be willing
51:00
to sacrifice just to stay but every person has to make the decision for themselves but at the
51:07
same time you don't want this to turn into uh a mass exodus yes uh or you would risk losing a a
51:16
very important part of the uh Muslim um generally um so people need to do their part right now and
51:24
help in whatever way possible um the gazen people to be able to be steadfast and remain on their
51:31
land uh build the their houses build projects and try to make a living otherwise we would be
51:41
looking at a much greater disaster thank you so much for your time today thank you for having
51:46
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51:53
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