Ep 218. - Is Our Ibaadah Becoming Too Selfish? with Dr Khalid El-Awaisi

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Bait ul Maqdis – the sacred precinct in Palestine - is a blessed place in Islam – but today, we have downplayed maybe its centrality to what it means to a believer. From my last conversation with Dr Khalid al Awaisi – where he controversially said that al Aqsa and these blessed lands have to be more clearly central to our faith and worldview – we want to explore how we practically manifest this nearness to bait al maqdis or Palestine.

Dr Khalid El-Awaisi is from Hebron, Al Khalil, in Palestine. He is a lecturer in the pioneering field of Islamic Jerusalem Studies. He is an Associate Professor of Islamic History at the Social Sciences University of Ankara.

You can find You can find Dr Khalid El- Awaisi here:

IG: https://www.instagram.com/khalid_elawaisi/

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Transcript - This is an automated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation

Introduction

0:00

seeing a genocide continue while the umah  is enjoying large feasts we have secularized  

0:09

our religion the West doesn't have a problem  with Islam at a personal level the month of  

0:15

Ramadan is the month of change at an individual  level and at an umah level a genocide continues  

0:21

with two billion Muslims doing nothing is  something that every Muslim today will be  

0:26

questioned about I felt ashamed eating and  drinking while they're starving they have   work and they have families and they have  houses you know to pay and they have rent  

0:35

to pay no one's going to change the time you  die and no one can increase or decrease your

0:40

risk Ramadan is a month of reflection  self-improvement and connection with  

0:49

our creator Allah subhanahu wa'ta'ala but the  neoliberal secular world around us tends to  

0:56

deregulate this month to the individual as if  our place the demands of the personal above the  

1:02

demands of the umah and Seeking Justice how do  we move beyond the secularization of our faith  

1:09

how can we truly appreciate Ramadan for what  it is a transformational month for ourselves  

1:15

and for our impact upon the others around us  now to help us understand this discussion in  

1:22

Greater depth I've really honored to have back  on the show Dr khid Ali Dr khid is from Hebron  

1:29

Al Khal in Palestine he's a lecturer in the  pioneering field of Islamic Jerusalem studies  

1:35

uh he is the associate professor of Islamic  history at the social sciences University of   Ankara and the executive director of Islamic  Jerusalem academy uh Dr KH aamayum and welcome  

1:48

back to the think it's a pleasure being back  on this show well it's lovely to have you with  

1:54

us and uh you know jaak for um for coming once  again alhamdulillah I know you have a very busy  

2:00

schedule of of lecturing around the world and it's  just so happens that you've come back to the UK in  

2:05

time for this show which inshallah we we hope to  get out for for Ramadan um I in the introduction  

2:13

um place this dichotomy between the personal  and Justice and um and I argued that or argue  

2:22

that there is a secularization of the faith um  it really is building on something you said last  

2:28

time when we had a conversation about Jerusalem  and the importance of Jerusalem um I suppose my  

2:34

first question is um how do you see that dichotomy  like which takes precedence the personal or the  

Personal vs Ummatic Obligation

2:43

um like how do we as Muslims navigate these two  obligations if they are indeed obligations yes uh  

2:50

I think I I completely agree with you that the we  have secularized our uh religion that has become s  

3:00

ritual Islam seems to be disconnected and it's  about the personal and actually this over the last  

3:08

century this has been one of the main problems  that the Muslims are having and this is part of  

3:15

uh what we might call identity crisis that the  umah has and Scholars have talked about this  

3:23

in various different dimensions of it but what  we see is that the West doesn't have a problem  

3:30

with Islam at a personal level right it has  a problem and the enemies of Islam in general  

3:36

have a problem with Islam at the global level and  here this takes us into another uh uh discussion  

3:45

which is why are we on Earth yeah and it goes  back to the starting point where Allah subhana  

3:52

wa T says to Adam before creating Adam he says to  the angel angels creating a vice Regent on Earth  

4:03

and this concept of aifa on Earth isn't just for  Muslims or it is to make this world a better place  

4:13

for everyone and this is at a personal level  and at the um level you put these two ideas  

4:20

together yeah that you cannot detach them from  one another and we see this in the examples of  

4:26

all the prophets of Allah subhana wa tala without  exception that they're all constantly uh working  

4:33

on the individual and uh the community at large  or uh uh the the the the world or at Humanity  

4:42

whether they accept their faith or they do not  the idea is uh being beneficial to all of humanity  

4:49

and we have seen this across throughout Muslim  history before R wasallam and after Al wasallam  

4:56

and you see it with Muslim Scholars that all the  inventions everything is about being beneficial  

5:03

to uh to to the world uh and making this place  a better place for everyone to live in including  

5:12

animals and as Theif of the Muslims he says if a  a a donkey would trip in the road in a road that  

5:23

hasn't being paved well in Iraq Allah will ask me  about it so it's about not just uh uh the Muslims  

5:32

not just about Humanity it's about everything  within within within this world but going back  

5:38

to the question that you you started about  the individual and the secularization I think   this is a very dangerous uh point where  Muslims have become very individualistic  

5:50

yeah and have become uh what I call capitalist  Muslims or what you might call selfish Muslims  

6:00

uh the we we don't think about others we're  all thinking about how can I get more money  

6:08

how can I uh enjoy my life and this breaks away  from the core that uh it's not just about the  

6:15

individual it's about the family it's about the  community it's about Humanity as a whole and what   your purpose is and this is why s Ali wasallam  constantly uh even before his prophethood he moved  

6:27

away into seclusion uh in to try to ponder why  Society is so corrupt in order what can I do and  

6:37

then with The Message of Islam this he uh changed  the whole world in that in that sense and he was  

6:44

not individualistic wasallam uh does not did not  want this um to be brought up to be uh all I think  

6:55

about is myself yeah uh and you see you mentioned  the month of Ramadan Umi wasallam the month of  

7:03

Ramadan is the month of change at an individual  level and at an um level all the great battles  

7:09

of Islam uh happened the first one uh B uh and the  fat of meca uh numerous uh conquests or F happened  

7:24

in the month of Ramadan because they weren't not  thinking just about themselves and their personal  

7:30

atonement they're thinking about  the and where it should be heading to one of the things that we should try to  inculcate in our life is a reciprocation of  

Donate to Baitulmaal

7:41

Allah's blessings recognizing the sun of  Allah and one of the great Sun of Allah  

7:47

the patterns of Allah in creation that we see  in the Quran and Hadith is for us to care for   Orphans so just as Allah subhah wa ta'ala  took care of the Prophet sallallah alai  

7:56

wasall we should then extend that care to the  orphans in the world today and bab toal is at  

8:02

the Forefront of doing this $64 a month $768  a year you can take care of an orphan in the  

8:08

Muslim World Imagine how powerful that is that  that orphan will come and bear witness for you   in the Hereafter that you provided food  shelter water care and value in meaning  

8:19

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8:31

world I've uh come across people who or  Scholars who argue that Allah subhana wa  

Accountability

8:40

tala is not going to question me about Gaza or  about Netanyahu or about Trump or about Biden  

8:49

because these are things uh that are beyond my  ability to control but Allah was going to ask  

8:55

me about my fasting and my prayer and my zaka  and my Hajj and so they argue that there are  

9:03

in effect there are some things we control and  that's our personal Salvation And there are some  

9:08

things we just can't control the world around  us is there a problem with having that mindset  

9:13

I think the problem with that is it takes us  back into that question then why wasallam wanted  

9:20

to change society yeah then there is no point  and the uh there is a sense of that where Allah  

9:29

says in the Quran all you who believe you're  accountable only for yourself it will not harm  

9:35

you if someone chooses to deviate as long as  you're rightly guided uh so in a sense you  

9:41

are responsible for yourself but what we what we  have missed out is this is not your role the role  

9:51

of the umah as a whole and there is something  in Islam called as long as someone is doing it  

9:59

then you're not required to do it a collective  obligation yes so this Collective obligation  

10:07

uh no one's doing today so in a sense it becomes  immediately upon every Muslim which means that is  

10:17

obligatory until it is fulfilled that then you can  say well this is not my role and we we talk about  

10:25

this in the context of razza a genocide continues  with 2 billion Muslims doing nothing is something  

10:32

that every Muslim today will be questioned about  right uh you uh put that in the context of uh the  

10:44

role of a Muslim in society and if we're unable  to change the course of history then um there's  

10:52

a Hadith that really is very scary um and over the  last year this is in Muslim um that the prophet of  

11:04

Allah subhana t on the day of judgment something  that every Muslim would like to drink from the  

11:10

hand of wasallam on the day of judgment andas says  that a group of my um will be coming approaching  

11:18

and then the angel will snatch them and throw them  in the Hellfire and immediately Ras intercedes and  

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he says they're part of my um and Allah says to  him you do not know what they have done after  

11:31

you in the collective sense and this really  scares me that the umah for the last 100 years  

11:40

has really gone astray uh and this is a personal  responsibility and a collective responsibility  

11:48

and I think you cannot dismantle these Allah yes  will ask you about your uh the things that he has  

11:57

required you to do but in terms of why are you  on Earth it's not and that's why wasam says none  

12:06

of you will enter Jenna Because of Your Action  in terms of your yeah it is the mercy of Allah  

12:14

and wasallam puts it in another context you see  uh the importance of making a difference on the  

12:24

collective level uh and this is why sometimes  you need leaders ship but with the umah for  

12:30

the last century without a leadership uh with 57  Muslim states uh with different uh alliances to  

12:40

various different powers this umah has lost its  uh Direction and one important thing that we see  

12:48

from the sahabah afteri wasallam before they  buried alaihi wasallam they chose Abu Bakr as  

12:57

his successor as his khif yeah because with this  becomes uh it becomes an obligation without it you  

13:08

don't know which direction you and this umah is  completely today doesn't have a direction because  

13:14

there is nothing that unites the Muslim and this  was part of um the unfortunately Western Powers  

13:21

against the idea of a Unity amongst Islam Lawrence  of Arabia talks about this openly in his book that  

13:28

we should turn the people away from Haj to Mecca  to nationalism to Damascus uh and he open he  

13:36

talks about this openly and this is where we have  shifted away from uh from this particular uh uh we  

13:48

have shifted away from this particular concept of  a Unity with One Direction into so many directions  

13:56

without a purpose I'm interested in in what you  said there's a few strands that I want to pick at  

Gradient of capabilities?

14:03

uh in terms of what you say firstly uh ability  uh because you've said that uh this obligation  

14:10

to our um is a collective obligation yes uh but  of course every obligation uh comes down to at  

14:17

least it depends on our ability to discharge that  obligation um so my first question is um and it's  

14:25

linked to what you said there about leaders and  the absence of leadership of course the leaders  

14:30

of the Muslim countries would have a greater uh  weight uh on this obligation because they're in  

14:38

a leadership position whereas I don't know a  university student is going to by definition  

14:45

have less ability um so does the the obligation  in your mind uh become lessened if not lifted  

14:53

because we don't have access or capability like  those Scholars or lead or or busmen who may be  

15:01

multi-billionaires uh they have on the next  is there a is there effectively a a gradient  

15:09

of uh of capabilities this question what will  I leave behind me what will my legacy be and I  

15:17

think this is a question that every Muslim needs  to ask themselves and we have seen this across uh  

15:25

history uh with someone leaving a water well uh  or a fountain as something that the concept of a  

15:35

a continuous charity even after your death your  uh your action is not going to be discontinued  

15:43

um and you see this with uh inventions like or  ibas or uh different but people have different  

15:53

abilities and I think we need to acknowledge that  yes uh and uh you have uh this different gradient  

16:02

that you you did talk about but the question  for each individual is what and these are uh  

16:12

the ultimate questions that every human has asked  why are we on this Earth where did we come from  

16:19

and where where are we heading to and I think this  gives one uh what do you want to be remembered by  

16:29

after you leave this D yeah what will continue for  yourself uh and in that sense yes not everyone is  

16:39

a leader uh not everyone might take this uh this  position but I think the umah today needs to come  

16:47

together to choose a way uh forward through some  form of uh uh leadership how this happens is uh  

17:03

I've discussed this with some Scholars that the  problem even theoretically we're not talking about  

17:08

this today uh the end of nation states we're  talking about the end of the idea of a nation  

17:14

state we're talking about uh various different  things that will bring uh people together and I  

17:21

think if Islam does not provide an alternative  then we're going to go into a new form of Jah  

17:29

that will take for maybe another Century before  things change yeah uh so I think it is both a  

17:36

collective and an individual responsibility for  the um to come together uh and each one within his  

17:44

own ability to do what he can in order to we that  we move things forward and how important is it for  

Recharging in Ramadan?

17:51

um for us in Ramadan because of course um uh you  know a number of people would say that in Ramadan  

17:58

we want to uh we want to charge our batteries we  want to uh develop our spiritual connection with  

18:05

Allah subhana wa ta'ala and that keeps us rooted  right yes uh but of course there is a genocide  

18:11

taking place and there are uh problems around the  world and and the um is in is in D straight so um  

18:19

you know is there a is it acceptable for one to  concentrate at least in one month on one uh the  

18:27

exclusion of of other the other I don't think that  is acceptable islamically or ethically uh and I'll  

18:36

give you a few examples uh we mentioned that the  major uh fat or uh victories of Islam took place  

18:45

in the month of Ramadan yeah uh and this you can  see it fromal to the fat of andus to uh the fat  

18:55

of mecah to various different things and if it's  if it was and the month of Ramadan is the month of  

19:01

change I completely agree uh but it's both at the  individual level and at the um level right uh and  

19:10

I think we need to we have and I personally in  the month of Ramadan you want forgiveness from  

19:19

Allah you want that re to recharge your battery  you want to feel Ean and you want to increase  

19:24

all of this but at the same time we have neged  nected uh and last Ramadan was one of the most  

19:32

difficult uh seeing a genocide continue while the  umah is enjoying large feasts and the Muslims are  

19:42

dying out of hunger that does not befit the umah  of Muhammad and if you put that in this context  

19:50

actually I I I felt ashamed eating and drinking  while they're starving yeah and uh uh that

20:00

discontinuity between the individual and his  umah and this selfish uh Muslim that is within  

20:11

us I think we need to move away from that if and  I give this example if it was wasallam stranded  

20:20

in uh for the 3 years and you're saying well I'll  fast and drink and and and do this uh while and  

20:34

the Muslims are dying out of hunger do you think  Allah is going to accept your fasting and I'll   give you an amazing example of IM har who when  Al fell to the Crusaders uh those who survived  

20:48

the the genocide in ALA escaped to Damascus and  the Imam IM Hari was the IM there and he said the  

20:59

Amir of Damascus is hopeless let's go to Bagdad  to the Khalifa uh so they head there and it was  

21:05

the month of Ramadan and the Khalifa is busy  with uh you know ifar programs like we like  

21:12

we do uh with lavish meals and this so he asks  to meet the khif and they say well in the month  

21:20

of Ramadan he's too busy he doesn't have time for  you I have important things to discuss come after  

21:26

Ramadan so he goes to the main in bdad he speaks  to the they say you give the of and he says how  

21:35

indifferent the Muslims are at his time this is  900 years ago and he sees the Muslims living their  

21:42

life like nothing has happened so he goes on the  member in the month of Ramadan and he breaks his  

21:51

fast in front of everyone and that shocks everyone  what are you doing you're F you this and you know  

21:58

Muslims are really good at calling names and  he says what I've done is nothing next to what  

22:06

you're doing whilea is under occupation there is  no more the wording are incredible it's more of a  

22:16

religious Duty than H than fasting and praying in  the month of Ramadan to liberate Al and that gives  

22:24

a big shake to the people they the police had  arrived the sh and they take him and then they  

22:30

take him to the khif and the khif then listens  to him and he says well I don't have sufficient  

22:36

Army to go with you but you can see how Imam Hari  shook the Muslims and I think we need that shake  

22:44

he used fasting which is the personal and he uses  some something another analogy to break your fast  

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in the month of Ramadan deliberately the kafar  to atone for it you have to fast 60 continue  

22:58

days but what is the kafar of the um what is  the atonement when Al is under occupation and  

23:07

he wanted to make that analogy I'm willing to fast  two months uh continuously but I want you to wake  

23:15

up uh and he it wasn't just him all the people  that came with him he told them break your fast  

23:21

in front of everyone so he would make that scene  and I think this is uh if s Al wasallam was with  

23:29

us today would he be happy with the status we're  in and I you ask I I ask this to students and uh  

23:39

to the audience is any Muslim today happy with  the situation of the umah you will not get anyone  

23:45

saying they're happy with it so going back to the  Sunnah of Allah if you don't change it Allah is  

23:51

not going to change it for you the job of us is  to collectively uh come together and be able to be  

24:00

an instrument of change to end this uh situation  that we're in I remember the Kad Hari uh example  

Capitalism and courage?

24:10

I remember reading this and I think the Khalifa in  Bagdad he began to cry yeah and he said something  

24:15

like the worst weapon of a Believer is to cry  when the war rapers of War fight yeah I think  

24:21

that's a it's a fantastic example actually uh to  to raise here um so then how important is courage  

24:29

because of course um I come across so many Muslims  who who are like you and I who are very unhappy  

24:35

with what's happened in Gaza and they they feel a  a sense of unease towards that but but at the same  

24:42

time they have work and they have families and  they have houses you know to pay and they have  

24:47

rent to pay and they have so it's a very you know  the burdens of Life capitalism makes you into a  

24:54

slave of of a system which which uh you know most  people are Liv in paycheck to paycheck yes uh and  

25:00

so there is a fear that if we speak out uh we're  going to uh jeopardize our standing and our lives  

25:08

and our careers and our our positions and whatever  whatever we've so how important is courage like  

25:14

give us some some understanding of where courage  comes into this whole conversation yeahi wasallam  

25:19

on this he constantly uh encourages that a Muslim  is never s silent and I completely agree with you  

25:31

we have become a slave to the system and many  people have paid heavy prices since uh the  

25:40

7th of October speaking against what is happening  and the genocide that has taking place and I have  

25:46

seen many examples of people who have been forced  out of their jobs and so on but and I I gave this  

25:54

example numerous times and uh thei of wasallam uh  that the problem that the umah is is currently in  

26:06

is because of Wan and this heart disease Wan is  the love of D and fear of death and you put this  

26:15

on the scale no one's going to change the time  you die and no one can increase or decrease your  

26:21

risk right if you have full submission to Allah T  then you know nothing will ever nothing will ever  

26:32

change what Allah has decreed for you and this is  what gave courage to the sahaba you see the sahaba  

26:39

on the battlefield they are in the battlefield  and uh in their lives they're taking risks that  

26:48

are you might say is this a calculated risk or  is it un sometimes KH uh was bordering between  

26:58

sometimes bravery and Insanity to a to a sense  where he has nothing to fear and this is part  

27:07

of Islam's sense of T surrendering your will  to Allah subhana wa tala and you see this in  

27:14

the people OFA they say if Allah has written us  uh to become Shah we're waiting for our turn and  

27:21

this full T we believe in it theoretically but  we do not live it so the concept of risk no one  

27:29

will change your risk and no one will change  before you were even born Allah has already   decreed the time you will die so why your  sustenance yes yes the sustenance so in a  

27:39

sense without uh uh this this uh sustenance  and the time of your death no one will ever  

27:47

change them yeah uh but this should then give  you courage that if you do not fear death or  

28:00

risk sustenance then you are uh able to stand up  against the tyrants and wasallam says the greatest

28:12

uh the greatest Jihad is to stand in front of a  tyrant and tell him off and he kills you and you  

28:26

might say well this is really stupid but the idea  is that you never accept Injustice and that's why  

28:33

wasallam says a Believer would never be silent  uh if you see an injustice you change it with  

28:42

your hand you stand up and you stop it if you're  unable to do that then you do it with your tongue  

28:50

so you speak against it if you're unable to do  that then the minimum is to to dislike it with  

28:59

your heart but says this is the lowest form of IM  and this is not something that wants you to be at  

29:07

he wants you to change it with your tongue  you stand up against Injustice and you speak   against it or you stop it with your hand um and  we see these examples that courage is something  

29:22

that Islam instills in you but today and I uh  sadly say this Muslims have become very passive  

29:30

afraid uh as you have described them within  this capitalist Society where we don't want  

29:36

to take risks and this is a big problem and you  see Dua of and this Dua really is incredible he

29:46

says I seek refuge in Allah from the uh inability  of of a Believer and the uh ability or the heart  

30:05

the striving of a disbeliever and you see this on  numerous aspects uh and when Omar becomes a Muslim  

30:13

the Muslims are hiding in the house of alam and  he says to them are we not on the right path they  

30:18

say yes are they not on the wrong path yes then  why do you accept to be in this position stand up  

30:27

and Omar changed one individual changed the face  of Islam in a sense yeah um so in that in in that  

30:36

the courage uh that is uh is needed is something  that Islam instills in us and gives you guarantees  

30:48

that nothing will happen unless Allah has willed  it and and I'll finish with this Dua with this  

30:57

Hadith of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam  telling a child a young boy IB Abbas he says to  

31:03

him I want to teach you a few words protect Allah  Allah will protect you uh protect Allah Allah will  

31:11

you will find him by your side if you ask only ask  of Allah if uh you uh want help seek it only from  

31:22

Allah and know if the whole world was to gather  against you to harm you they will not harm you  

31:29

unless Allah has decreed it for you and know  if the whole world was together to bring you a  

31:35

single benefit they will not benefit you unless  Allah has decreed for you and he says the Pens  

31:42

have been lifted and the ink has dried meaning  meaning the concept of predestiny um so this uh  

31:51

linked with a a saying of the great aah show Allah  the best in you uh and this is something I think  

32:05

Will has given the sahabah courage and I think  the umah and we today need that courage that's  

32:11

really really fascinating so show Allah the best  in you so yes what does it mean then to be a good  

32:17

Muslim like just paint me a picture of an ideal  Muslim yes an ideal Muslim is not someone who is  

32:28

in constant state of worship which is how we  picture someone who stands up and uh makes theud  

32:36

for uh 10 hours a night you need this for the  self-discipline this is how told theah yes but he  

32:44

told them this in order to be a an agent of change  in the world right you need that discipline to  

32:53

change but the sahab of who is a good Muslim they  say to when we are with you our IM is so strong  

33:03

and when we go home and we go back to our lives  our IM goes down andas uh the answer is incredible  

33:12

he says if your Iman is constantly at this high  level then Allah will bring down the angels from  

33:19

the skies and they will shake your hands meaning  that you become an angel and Islam is not about  

33:27

that exactly the opposite and Allah gives us the  example of Adam um andam says every son of Adam  

33:38

every child of Adam uh is a sinner and the best of  the Sinners are those who repent so this constant  

33:46

level the perfect Muslim is the one that makes  a mistakes learns from the mistakes and improves  

33:53

that is how wasallam and the Quran teaches us the  sahab we I we romanticize how the sahabah were  

34:02

when you look at the sahaba they were human beings  that made mistakes and these mistakes are mistakes  

34:09

that they learned from uh we think the sahabah  were the ideal generation they are that they were  

34:17

sinless they they were not uh they were the ideal  generation brought up by the best man but amongst  

34:24

them those who sinned and they were brought to  alai wasallam and a man constantly came drunk  

34:31

they would he would be brought a sahabi constantly  drunk in front of wasallam and one of the sahab  

34:38

cursed him got so angry and he says this man loves  Allah and his messenger so sometimes we think of  

34:47

Islam in for in the sense of Utopia but that  doesn't exist and the perfect Muslim is the one  

34:58

that the concept of trial and error you find how  you can attain the best level uh of your Islam  

35:10

through constant change so sometimes you think of  yourself it is yes you need that discipline but at  

35:18

the same time it's about changing the world that  you're in and the sahab that raised in Mecca they  

35:28

they changed the world within a few years after  the death ofam they had conquered makd North  

35:37

Africa into Europe into andelo into China in the  East into Africa into Anatolia and this was within  

35:47

because Rah had instilled in them in this and they  changed the whole world they brought a new world  

35:52

order uh of justice and peace uh uh around uh  around the world when the genocide in Gaza began  

Become a member

36:02

I vowed we would never let those responsible  get away with this silence was complicity in a  

36:08

world that wants us to remain Placid a world that  wants us to be concerned more about our immediate  

36:15

lives and interests the system buys our souls  in return for acquiescence with their empire  

36:22

building project we at the thinking Muslim said  about changing thear artive and in the process  

36:29

with Allah's Baraka we Galvanize our communities  to confront these political Elites and send them  

36:35

a clear message in elections on both sides of  the Atlantic we brought communities together  

36:42

and led the way encountering their pernicious  agenda such is the power of this New Media our  

36:51

mission is simple we want to build an alternative  Muslim media one that is rooted in faith thinking  

36:59

an enlightened activism and we need your help  to expand this sacred undertaking our plan is  

37:07

to turn a thinking Muslim into a multi-show  multicountry media project please help us by  

37:14

becoming a member for as little as £10 a month  you will have access to bonus shows behind the  

37:21

scenes content and Q&A with me and my guests but  most importantly your contri contributions will  

37:28

make this voluntary project go to the next  level and give you a share inshallah tala  

37:34

in this reward now I know the demands on our  sodaka are great please do consider becoming  

37:40

a member of the thinking Muslim or send us your  one-off donations by going to thinking muslim.com

37:46

membership and may Allah subhana  wa tala accept from all of us

Change and spirituality

37:57

you said something really instructive there  about how our T and our should be there to make  

38:05

us agents of change can you expand expand on that  because of course often when we think about tud it  

38:11

is about the self it's about ingratiating  self or asking Allah subhana tala to help  

38:16

us with our predicaments and help us with which  alhamdulillah we we of course have to Yes uh but  

38:23

you're linking the spiritual to becoming better  agent for change like explain that L to me Allah

38:30

tells he connects that spiritual with the action  when wasam from the morning until the evening  

38:46

constantly making da to Islam this is in the  mechan period when you get home stand up and  

38:55

ask Allah to give success to what you have done  right and to improve it so you cannot detach that  

39:02

and the concept of Salah in Islam is linked to  the word silah which means a connection between a  

39:08

human and his creator and today Salah has become  a ritual that is void of any soul in it and IM  

39:19

gazali talks about this in such a beautiful  way that our Salah has become just forms of  

39:27

uh action without without a soul and he says  think of your Salah and I think in the month  

39:34

of Ramadan we need to really reflect on this  and try to improve our Salah he think he says  

39:40

think about it as a gift a gift or a quban you are  presenting to your lord and he gives the example  

39:48

of a horse imagine taking a dead horse to a King  and presenting that as a gift to him what would  

39:54

he do to you and he says our Salah without is void  of that and the concept is you're asking Allah to  

40:04

give so you're praying and you're asking Allah to  give success to the actions that you have done in  

40:11

your life yeah or to guide you into a particular  direction that you are able to to change things uh  

40:19

in in the better into a better world and this  is how wasallam Allah commands him so this is  

40:26

theia Allah is given to his messenger when you  finish your work then stand up and ask assistant  

40:35

from Allah so it's the cyclical process that you  are constantly the spiritual with the action and  

40:43

you're constantly in that Circle so you're  constantly trying to improve your personal  

40:48

connection with Allah and your connection with  the people and changing the world and this is  

40:54

how we see Allah subhana wa ta'ala has taught to  be and how reflected this on the sahab you have to  

41:02

constantly be in this constant change and I think  the month of Ramadan is a month of discipline uh  

41:11

and it should help us to improve our relationship  with Allah and our relationship with the creatures  

41:22

uh and the creation of Allah subhana wa ta'ala  and make this world uh a better Place uh for  

41:29

everyone for every soul within I wrote an article  recently and I sent it out on my newsletter subac  

Escape society?

41:36

and um it was actually a talk I gave to students  uh motivating them to be active and to encourage  

41:44

them to get involved with uh guaza work and  activism and of course as you know in fact you  

41:50

were here as a as a student in Britain um there  has been a shift amongst University students  

41:58

uh where I don't know if this is fair but we  become students become a bit more apolitical  

42:03

and quietist when it comes to activism anyway  I wrote this uh uh piece which I I delivered to  

42:10

some students and someone got back to me who  said that uh but there's Hadith which state  

42:15

that and and I'll give you a quick summary soon  the best property of a Muslim will be a flock of   sheep he takes to the top of a mountain or in The  Valleys of rainfall fleeing with his religion from  

42:27

from his tribulations and I suppose the point  he was making it was a very sincere Point yes   but sometimes the world around you can affect you  and give you anxiety and take you away from your  

42:37

dean and you and so the only pricee of a Believer  is to escape the society and to find a a recourse  

42:46

which is to uh be alone uh or to be separated  from the the worst of of the world um how do we  

42:53

it's a Hadith how do you respond to to this yes  uh we all in our imagination think of ourselves  

43:05

on an island on our own away from I would love  this yes yeah and as a child this is something  

43:13

in my head actually getting away from the world  and just being away that will happen inshallah in  

43:19

Jenna you will enjoy that inshallah and I think  our yearning to Jenna and coming from there I  

43:28

think puts that in our F that we want to be away  from all the problems and enjoy uh things uh away  

43:39

from people but there is a saying in Arabic uh J  without people you don't you can't set a foot in  

43:47

it um and wasallam in another Hadith he says the  one that deals with people yeah and is patient  

43:58

from the harmness that they cause him is better  than a believer that does not deal with people  

44:05

and is not patient doesn't have saber uh on  the harm that they cause and I think this uh  

44:12

this Hadith if we continue it it talks about uh  a better better than this is Jihad in the way of  

44:20

Allah subana wa tala so the sense of escaping is  sometimes needed and I think even in the life of  

44:29

Scholars like Imam gazali there was a stage in  his life where he escaped Society yeah and you  

44:34

need to move away and rethink your life you need  to get at one stage in your life uh get into a  

44:43

state of where you rethink and you re uh model  the life that you would like to live in uh so  

44:53

it's needed went through that himself and it's  part of our but then decided he came down from  

45:00

the cave and he engaged with the people and it was  very uh very harmful for wasallam and he went into  

45:08

very difficult times in his life dealing with  people and being humiliated and crying to Allah  

45:15

subhana wa tala and you see this and we say the  best example to us Isam if that was um uh what  

45:27

would always tell us to do maybe there is a  stage in your life where you need to escape  

45:33

rethink your life but it's not about living away  you have to come down and Challenge and change the  

45:40

world that you're living and this is how what we  learn from wasallam uh you go down and you fight  

45:48

and you challenge and you change the world to  a better place to be and this is what achieved  

45:57

this is what the sahaba may Allah be pleased with  them achieved this is what we have seen throughout  

46:03

Muslim history uh is this constant struggle uh  with uh the system that has been established um  

46:14

and changing it and taking it back to how Allah  would want us to to live our life in this dun one  

46:22

final question for you um when we engage with this  with the world activism Society Justice we want to  

Islamic advice on self-reflection

46:31

change the world around us um inevitably we're  going to find faults in ourselves we're going to  

46:38

find imperfections sometimes big imperfections  in ourselves impatience um you know uh egoism  

46:46

maybe you know these personal traits which um May  uh take you astray from uh from the right way of  

46:55

doing things or make you feel that at the center  of of the work because you're gaining results um  

47:01

how do we reflect and build a mentality where we  reflect on these uh problematic traits within us  

47:08

that we all have you know um like what are the  mechanisms that Islam gives us to uh to self-renew  

47:16

when we uh when we uh create these frictions uh  between the the world around us and ourselves  

47:24

and our NS yeah W these are very deep uh questions  and uh I was discussing this with um some brothers  

47:34

recently and it was really it is really a problem  um for ourselves uh and how do we move forward and  

47:43

the answer that I I personally went through uh  growing up and having these problems is you get  

47:54

to a point which IM Al gazali talks about about in  his uh uh books is you get to a stage where you're  

48:02

doing it solely for Allah whether you're praised  or whether you are criticized it doesn't make a  

48:10

difference because your goal is Allah's pleasure  with you Allah being pleased with uh what with  

48:20

what you're doing but the thing is some people  will say then I should stop I shouldn't do it  

48:26

and until I perfect myself there isn't a perfect  individual right and I think this is part of the  

48:32

struggle yeah we need to constantly get into  that uh uh Jihad with the naps and this is a  

48:41

very difficult thing sometimes yes ego comes into  the place I want position a form of leadership I  

48:50

want this I want that and I think the best way to  do this is to to bring humility to yourself and we  

48:59

see this across uh the when they uh one beautiful  example is uh a modern example shik shawi of Egypt  

49:10

and when he felt wow you know I become a uh a  minister uh of a and he told his driver stop  

49:22

and he went outside the Masjid he went down and  he went went and he disappeared for about half  

49:28

an hour 40 minutes and he started looking for him  and he was cleaning the toilet the idea is know  

49:37

if your NS and was the best in this if you think  too highly of yourself then humilate yourself in  

49:46

in in in in ways that will bring you down to  uh uh your your your your real place and no  

49:57

connecting this with another Point sometimes we  think Allah needs us you know sometimes we think  

50:04

I am the one that's doing this for uh Islam and  the best amazing example is nin zinki nin zinki  

50:13

and the Battle of har in the month of Ramadan  he makes a Dua and this Dua really shakes me  

50:22

he cries to Allah subhana wa tala and he says  Ya Allah give Victory to your dean and not to  

50:28

Mahmud the dog who is Mahmud the dog to for you  to give Victory to him and he brings it you know  

50:36

sometimes can you make D like this n Mahmud  who is one of the most amazing Muslim leaders  

50:45

in history he was Pi Pious and at the same time  he was uh in every sense he was a great leader uh  

50:56

and you see him humilating himself in front of  Allah and this is something sometimes we need  

51:03

we need to bring ourselves down and know that uh  as one of the scholars say know that What You're  

51:10

Made Of and Allah reminds us of this inah uh that  you're created from a sperm you're created know  

51:18

your position sometimes this ego thing you need  to to be able to to do this and the best time is  

51:26

Ramadan Ramadan gives you that balance it makes  you think I can stay away from food and drink the  

51:36

self discipline use that in your life use that to  improve uh uh the quality uh of the life that you  

51:49

are living in the way of Allah subhana wa tala one  final question to to uh to to build on that um we  

Life of obscurity?

51:58

do come across at the time of the sahaba there are  individual Muslims while the while the Jihad is  

52:05

happening while the expansion is happening while  the Muslims are involved in society but you will  

52:11

get yes some individual Muslims who do withdraw at  the time of Omar I remember there was one man who  

52:20

uh became quite popular because he was able to you  know his Dua was very special and so he moved away  

52:27

yes completely from the society in order to live  a life was in order to live a life of obscurity  

52:34

cuz he did not want to be um and and maybe we all  want to be like that right like what is the in a  

52:41

sense these examples show that you may get these  anomalies okay fine they're not Society they're   not the majority is there I suppose a problem with  yearning for that level of obscurity uh with with  

52:53

him he was afraid of the fitna that that would  happen with that wasallam told Omar uh there will  

53:02

come this man from Yen if you see him ask him to  ask Allah for forgiveness for you for Omar wow so  

53:11

uh when people found out this everyone wants to go  to him and ask him make Dua that Allah forgives me  

53:18

and he did not want to be in that Limelight and  he his relationship with Allah is not this uh  

53:26

I uh will want and this is the unnamed what  we call the unnamed soldiers and you see this  

53:35

with a lot of the sahaba is one in one of the  battles a great warrior fighting but had his  

53:43

face covered I don't want to be doing this for  people I want to be doing it for Allah yeah and  

53:51

I think this is the question that we need to  ask ourself but on that point Allah gives us   a very important example in the Quran inah the  three people that did not participate with in  

54:05

tabuk yeah and these were sahab ofh wasallam  yeah and their punishment was so grave that  

54:16

even their families boycotted them and their  wives left them based on them letting down is  

54:26

Islam what did they do they didn't participate  in the battle whenas said it was an obligation  

54:34

upon every Muslim yeah the MF are another level  they they weren't accounted for but I think this  

54:41

is putting all our conversation together is  when you are needed and you let Islam down  

54:48

your punishment is going to be so grave yeah and I  think the example of the three Allah mentions inah

54:59

because they let down and you ask yourself  if you have let Allah and his messenger down  

55:08

or you have done everything in your ability so  going back to how much we are doing uh if you  

55:15

are able to revive the um ande your ability to  do something in a particular way yeah and you  

55:21

haven't done it then as uh Imam says you have  committed treason to Allah and his messenger  

55:30

W okay and his words are so heavy he says if a  scholar enters a city where Zena is prevalent  

55:41

and he talks about something else he talks  about RBA another Haram thing then he has  

55:46

committed treason to Allah and his messenger and I  think this is everyone needs to find that balance  

55:53

uh but within our conversation today we've been  thinking out loud so some of the uh the thoughts  

55:59

maybe need a little improving and need maybe  to be thought and the your uh podcast being the  

56:09

thinking Muslim we've been thinking together so I  might not have answered some of the questions in  

56:16

the right way but uh I hope uh it opens a way  for us to think outside the box and to think  

56:26

think what can we do and for each one of us to  strive in that process of thinking and pondering  

56:35

and seeing how we can improve our personal uh  the umah and Humanity at large and I think this  

56:45

is why Allah has created Adam and humans is to put  the three together uh and without this connection  

56:56

I think our lives are meaningless um and inshallah  Allah guides us into and we make this Dua every  

57:06

day guide us to the straight path and may Allah  guide this um into uh the right direction that  

57:14

we go back to what our role is is the leadership  of humanity insh insh we look I I think really  

57:24

this has been a thought-provoking conversation  I'm really glad to have this conversation with   you today and thank you so much for your time  when the genocide in Gaza began I vowed we would  

57:37

never let those responsible get away with this  silence was complicity in a world that wants us  

57:43

to remain Placid a world that wants us to be  concerned more about our immediate lives and  

57:49

interests the system buys our souls in return for  acquiescence with their empire building project  

57:57

we at the thinking Muslim said about changing the  narrative and in the process with Allah's Baraka  

58:04

we Galvanize our communities to confront these  political Elites and send them a clear message  

58:10

in elections on both sides of the Atlantic  we brought communities together and led the  

58:16

way encountering their pernicious agenda such is  the power of this New Media our mission is simple  

58:26

we want to build an alternative Muslim media one  that is rooted in faith thinking and enlightened  

58:33

activism and we need your help to expand this  sacred undertaking our plan is to turn the  

58:41

thinking Muslim into a multi-show multicountry  media project please help us by becoming a  

58:48

member for as little as £10 a month you have  access to bonus shows behind the scenes content  

58:56

and Q&A with me and my guests but most  importantly your contributions will make  

59:02

this voluntary project go to the next level  and give you a share inshallah tala in this  

59:08

reward now I know the demands on our sodaka are  great please do consider becoming a member of  

59:14

the thinking Muslim or send us your one-off  donations by going to thinking muslim.com

59:20

membership and may Allah subhana  wa ta'ala accept from all of

59:26

[Music] us please remember to subscribe to  our social media and YouTube channels  

59:37

and head over to our website thinking  muslim.com to sign up to my weekly newsl

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Ep 219. - Gaza Sends an Eid Message to the Muslim World by Abubaker Abed

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Ep 217. - The Genocide Must Be the Jolt That Awakens Us From This Slumber- Muhammad Jalal