Ep 199. - Cultivating Chivalry: Islam and Raising Men with Imam Dawud Walid

January 17, 2025 Muhammad Jalal

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Never in human history has the role and position of men and women been subject to so much dispute. The advent of liberalism has ushered in an era of free thought and individualism that has removed previously accepted notions of roles and obligations. Liberal feminism has explicitly sought to forward a hollow version of equality that has on the whole, harmed women and men. And sadly, the backlash has been a crude assertion of masculinity that loathes women and removes any of their rights. Social media is awash with a morass of failed gender relations and gender conflicts, to which many young Muslims, however well-intentioned, contribute. Imam Dawud Walid published a serious contribution to the subject of manhood. He argues that the rich classical scholarly works detailing how to bring up young men have been lost. This sacred idea of chivalry may look out of place in modernity, but it produced well-balanced young men that combine courage with humility, strength with forgiveness and public duty with prayer. Imam Dawud Walid believes Islamic masculinity is not naturally acquired but has to come from revelation and reinforced by models of manhood within families and communities. He has recently authored a brilliant book titled, Futuwwah: and raising males into sacred manhood. A timely contribution to the topic. He has recently authored a brilliant book titled, Futuwwah: and Raising Males into Sacred Manhood, a timely contribution to the topic.

You can follow Imam Dawud Walid's Telegram group here https://t.me/dawudwalid

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Transcript - This is an automated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation

Introduction

0:00

this fatua or shy in essence is it's a code of honor all men are males but

0:07

all of them are not men he outly looks like a male or as Mr Andrew Tate would

0:13

say a top G doesn't necessarily make a person a real man really there's a metaphysical reality behind being a man that's not just physical nuclear family

0:22

is detrimental to raising young males to being men in Western Society a war on traditional m

0:30

so the red pill movement for instance talks about women almost as being like Commodities I think the red pill movement actually is unmanly a real man should be willing to give his life for his

0:40

wife never in human history has the role and position of men and women been subject to so

0:49

much dispute the Advent of liberalism has ushered in an era of free fought

0:54

and individualism but has removed previously accepted Notions of traditions and obligation

1:01

liberal feminism has explicitly sought to forward a hollow version of equality but has on the whole

1:08

harmed women and men and sadly the backlash has been a crude assertion of masculinity

1:15

that loaves women and removes any of their rights social media is a wash with a moras

1:21

of failed gender relations and gender conflicts to which many young Muslims however well-intentioned

1:26

contribute Imam d wed has recently published a serious contribution to the subject of manhood

1:35

this sacred idea of chivalry may look out of place in modernity he has recently offered a

1:41

brilliant book as I said titled futa the race and rais in males into sacred manhood I think a timely

1:49

contribution to the topic and he's our guest today uh Imam d w and welcome to back to the

1:56

Muslim it's your fourth time now on on The Thinker Muslim I think alhamdulillah we we spoke last

2:04

during the American elections so jazak I mean you're in the UK today and uh I think you're

2:10

you're here for a conference in the weekend so it's really wonderful that you've come to to our studio first time in the studios yes first time in studio well you've written this book on fua

2:20

shivalry in hisan let's start with what chivalry means because of course uh the term shivalry comes

What is Chivalry?

2:26

you know to my British mind it's sort of you go back to kings and queens of England where you've

2:32

got you know guys in robes who who who open doors for for women like what is chivalry in an Islamic

2:38

context uh so I'll deal with the term uh fora more so which uh you know we're

2:52

Loosely Translating that as uh sacred chivalry or we could even call it uh Islamic chivalry

2:58

buta is some somewhat of a an elusive term uh and we translate it as sacred chivery

3:05

yeah but uh linguistically speaking it's related to the word uh F or fan which is

3:12

conglomeration of the fat and it puts in our mind that there is uh a individual that has

3:21

uh youthful vigor that is transitioning out of one stage of personage to a greater stage

3:30

of responsibility right so moving out of this like adolescent or childish age into a age of

3:37

more maturity um even the word uh fatwa fatawa even is linguistically related to fatua one

3:45

who has a level of discernment as well as uh education to be able to give uh a particular

3:53

legal opinion that is not just uh abstract or speculative but based in some sort of evidence

3:59

D which also includes uh experential or the facts on the ground so this fatua or shy uh

4:11

in essence is it's a code of honor it's a code of conduct that a a young man who is seeking

4:19

to be shiverers how the peak of it is to prefer others over oneself right so this is where where

4:30

we could say the shivery comes in like I think I read some story growing up in in the states maybe

4:36

with some uh British folklore about how someone came and uh there was a a damsel who was walking

4:43

and then there was a puddle of of of of mud or something some water he takes off his his

4:50

Kissa or his cloak and then throws it on on the ground so that she doesn't get her feet uh muddy

4:57

uh which is we could say is a typ of shivery but this term goes beyond these sorts of just social

5:05

norms or etiquet but it it's something that is uh a uh something that's spiritual that transcends

5:15

or manifests itself into a very real uh social and even has uh political implications how does

Chivalry vs Masculinity

5:24

chivalry differ to masculinity we we're all men built differently biologically they're different

5:32

to women and naturally we acquire certain strengths and certain attitudes as we grow up

5:38

as we grow older as we mature how's that different to what you're calling for sacred chivalry well

5:45

that's a very good question um so the term F was a term that was used by the uh the Sala the

5:52

early generations of Muslims and been written by an elucidated on by many scholars and for

6:01

instance he has a section on on so this is a term that comes from a Classical period uh a term in

6:12

Arabic would be arula that's not a term that was used in the in the classical tradition we won't

6:18

find where the theim theim ever use this term or IM IM Shafi IM Ahmed didn't use this type of term

6:27

but we have some sort of conception uh of this what I uh and I quoted in in this book um one of

6:36

uh our our scholars in America uh and actually uh who have taken Hadith from uh do Muhammad B yii is

6:49

originally from Syria may Allah bless the people of Syria uh he said that all uh the core are not

6:59

re mean all males are not men so all men are males mean phys in their physiology and their biology

7:10

but all of them are not men meaning that we're talking about this issue of manhood there are

7:17

certain traits uh that one may call Rula that of course women can display but in their fullness of

7:26

what it means to be a true Roger this is something that is exhibited uh through uh the personage of

7:35

a biological male right however just because one has reached the age of being M according to the

7:44

Shar meaning 15 or older let's say a guy is 30 years old he has a beard he has a deep voice yes

7:50

he outly looks like a male uh or as Mr Andrew Tate would say a top G or the late Kevin Samuels would

7:58

say a high value you man just because that person has muscles and works out 5 days a week or makes

8:05

over a 100,000 American dollars or was it 85,000 British pounds a year or whatever that would be

8:14

right um doesn't necessarily make a person a real man right because there is an inward reality that

8:23

has to manifest and it's based on what we could say is this notion that IM talked about of the

8:32

was right that it is virtue that exhibits itself outwardly but virtue is in the middle or is in the

8:40

middle anything that is too far to the right which is El or too far to the left which is a uh being

8:50

uh grossly excessive or grossly negligent when not be a man so for instance uh we use this example um

9:00

or I'll use some American terms you could have a brute or a punk right a brute or like a f own

9:07

is not a real man yes but uh someone who's puncy who is uh cowardly he doesn't take on

9:14

any responsibility that's not a man in in the in the true sense either and um this

9:22

masculinity uh that we're talking about and again it's not the slight the women right but

9:31

even some of these traits that we have a fure that women can can have the expression of it

9:39

cannot be like a man and also there's certain what we could say jamali traits of spiritual

9:45

beauty that men have but aren't expressed the same way that women expressed them right and

9:50

and the Sharia respects this this is why there are certain obligations that men have according

9:56

to the Sharia yeah that women don't have and and it's not um a slight uh upon women but there is

10:07

really there's a metaphysical reality behind being a man that's not just physical and no

10:13

matter how hard I uh would want to uh try to play the role of a mother of my children I can't be a

10:21

mom because I'm not a woman and likewise no matter how hard a woman wants to try to fill certain so

10:29

roles as a cous man she can never be a man right because she's not a Zer and and in order to be Aaj

10:39

in the truth sayik you have to be AER so fua is a there are a series of Virtues that a a person

Futuwwah

10:50

inwardly imbus as well as externally uh exhibits um and these virtues have to be taught they're not

10:59

naturally acquired because of your biological character or your your physiological change

11:04

at the age of 15 or 16 or wherever these have to be taught so do we see signs of the prophet

11:11

alisat wasam in the early message teaching these virtues to the early companions who

11:19

were very many many of them were very young yeah most definitely so you touched on a very important point so all children male and female are born born upon right and the prophet said

11:33

this every child is born upon the intrinsic pure primordial nature right so we don't believe that

11:43

children are born sinful at the same time this is what we have the termia there has to be

11:50

some sort of raising up just like and the word is linguistically related to like Allah th is the one

12:00

who created us who nurtures us and raises raises us up by degrees and sustain us likewise in the

12:09

Taria there has to be certain levels of steps in the in the upbringing and raising up to make a boy

12:17

become a man no we can see where uh the prophet s was evolved in this T now we know that his

12:30

biological sons all died they didn't make it to the age of being what we could say m according to

12:37

the sacred law the two examples however the two closest examples we can see however of

12:44

how he raised up chorous men and brought them through this tbia would be Ali ABI Talib and

12:54

Zade why because Ali at a very young age uh Abu Talib as we know went through financial

13:04

uh uh uh troubles or issues he sent Ali to live in the house in inad with the prophet at a very

13:15

young age right so hence Ali never worshiped uh Idols uh because there was never any wania or

13:23

idolatry in the home of Khadijah and then Zade who was just like a foster son to the prophet

13:32

sallallah alai wasallam so we we we see this so we see that there was um not just rearing as far

13:42

as teach but there was an embodiment where they literally uh absorb certain characteristics from

13:49

the of the Prophet s and this is what we see the transference of this you know that everything just

14:01

can't be taught by a word or everything just can't be learned from like just picking up a book that

14:08

this is an Endeavor that is modeled and there's a type of spiritual transference uh of of young

14:16

men benefiting from the healthy spiritual states of of other men that mold them kind of like how

14:23

steel sharpens steel right so uh Ali is known in many of the books of fatua classically fan he is

14:31

the master of the shiver young men after the prophet Sal Alam uh and why is this because he

14:40

benefited from the one who had the best Hal which is which is the prophet Al is that's

14:48

that's really uh interesting so we we're this is a discipline that's imbued in young people uh so

Upbringing issues

14:56

you've written a book on this subject and you've just said there that this is not a discipline you can just read one needs to model it one needs to be immersed in an atmosphere so is this is is your

15:10

uh your authoring of this book your authorship of this book a recognition that that atmosphere

15:16

is missing in many of our Muslim communities especially those in the west definitely uh the

15:22

reason why it was written uh was an observation that a number of us uh have seen and also a plea

15:32

or a cry for help yeah and particularly in my area in South Eastern Michigan United States

15:38

of America where single mothers were coming to us either because their husbands died and they

15:47

didn't have any other male family members around or the father you know divorced or checked out of

15:54

the son's lives that there was a recognition that there was not enough male mentorship and hence

16:03

this issue of Mama's Boys delayed adolescence even seen youth young men getting involved in

16:11

drugs and gang activity and that was because not enough of the steel sharpening steel so uh in the

16:19

city of Detroit and we mentioned this in the introduction that uh we started uh a group of

16:25

brothers we started uh a a weekly uh for tour reading and then we built upon that with other

16:32

activities of intergenerational mentorship so then we brought in archery on Saturdays or we could

16:39

call this uh prophetic uh Athletics we could say or sacred Athletics uh we brought in martial arts

16:47

because grappling is something that the sahaba did may Allah lot be well pleased with them and I mean the prophet himself sallahu Al wasam um and then we started organizing other activities

16:59

um primarily through the Z of LED byd who's one of the uh the students of Hab in um tin

17:10

uh camping trips um and other activities to try to pass on the benefit that we got from

17:20

our from our elders Al from our teachers that we want to pass on um to to to the youth I I wonder

Disconnection of generations

17:29

understand why is it that uh there s important uh ideals or these sets of important virtues have not

17:37

been passed on to our current Generations um like what is it that severed that that connection with

17:45

our with our elders and our forefathers which where we no longer uh have forour as a taught

17:54

discipline within our communities you know we haven't lost Sal we haven't lost fasting we we

18:01

haven't lost Hajj we haven't lost some of these afan that are very crucial to being a Muslim yet

18:07

you know in this particular area there seems to be an absolute you know uh disconnection between

18:14

uh between Generations like what happened there yeah that's that's a big answer to that to that

18:20

question but it's but there's a lot to it so I'll start off with some of the unintentional

18:26

aspects so and then I'll go to to I think is some um deliberate things so unintentional is a product

18:35

of modernity in the west right it's it's it's a part of it right um for instance some of the Vigor

18:46

that young men would go through um for instance I'll give you one prime example that I come from

18:53

a family of people that would grow food and also hunt uh when you live in a place like London or

19:03

New York City of Detroit you don't go hunting you don't go regular slaugh food you go to the butch

19:09

you go Uber Eats you can go to the butcher yes for you don't don't even even know how to like

19:14

do a proper the right or or or or ever do in your life you can go to The Butcher Shop you can get

19:21

your meat you can get everything as convenience um and so some of the some of these things that also

19:30

rights of Passage for a young man knowing how to go out and Hunt knowing how to slaughter an animal

19:36

and how to like dress the animal properly um these were types of like things that were taught

19:41

and almost like rights of Passage most of that has been erased especially living in big big cities in

19:47

the modernity in the west this is something that's just um it's it's it's just by I won't say happen

19:56

stance but by living in the environment also going to schools I don't know about in Britain uh but I

20:03

can tell you United States and Canada children that go to public schools and this even could

20:09

even be the case in a lot of private Muslim schools you have young males for six or seven

20:16

hours a day may have nothing but female teachers growing up and they may be fine when they're in

20:22

elementary school but when it comes to the age of when they're coming into their developmental years of growing up to be a young man and then from middle school to the high school age and

20:32

they're around nothing but feminine energy they're not even around men to even see manly Behavior

20:38

they're around but females the entire time right and again women can mean well and do motivation

20:45

but women simply cannot give the same amount of uh Vigor or rigor generally speaking and that type of

20:56

commanding presence that men will give I mean it's it's it's something natural that when a young man

21:02

and I've seen it in in in my mentoring and things where a a woman can raise their voice at her son

21:10

of young men and then a man comes in the room it's like um who works out who has a deep voice and He

21:18

commands a certain type of his habba is different He commands a certain type of respect right so I

21:24

mean uh so these are certain things too from the from disciplinary track but even just the modeling

21:30

of of manhood right so this is another thing and this is kind of another aspect which is somewhat

21:37

unintentional in in the uh in the school systems uh and something else is that we've also Muslims

21:47

have unintentionally adopted to our detriment many of us the concept of nuclear family nuclear family

21:55

is detrimental to raising young males to being men of course the African proverb like it takes

22:01

a village right to raise a a a boy to be a man but we traditionally in Islamic societies came

22:10

from an extended family where you have living close by or even the same house three different

22:17

generations and you have uncles and people living close by now in this age of the western minority

22:25

people don't live in the same homes normally intergenerationally or the uncles and the older

22:30

cousins live far away maybe in a different city maybe even in a different country so that network

22:38

of of reinforcement and and manly toage uh is not present because many times we have uh gone to the

22:50

nuclear family and it's even exasperated or gotten worse with the increase of single parent household

22:58

of mothers doing their best working scrambling to raise two or three uh children all by her

23:07

herself right this so these are things that are unintentional what I believe is intentional that

23:15

has uh has taken place is that I believe that there is in Western Society a war on traditional

23:27

masculinity right uh this stems out of Neo Marxist thought yes uh we have things such as critical

23:36

studies which not only critical race Theory came out but critical gender studies right so one prime

23:43

example people will grow up and um teachers in school have have learned the pedagogy or it's even

23:50

taught in Liberal art schools you'll hear a term a critical gender studies called toxic masculinity

23:58

now that's a problematic term and that negatively affects women how they see masculinity but also

24:05

how males see themselves right um and of course there's no term called toxic femininity this is

24:12

done uh intentionally and we would say there's nothing inherently toxic about masculinity uh

24:19

the term has no Credence it's like we would never say Islamic terrorism uh because by Nature if it's

24:28

terrorism it can't be Islamic yes right so this is a problem so there is a type of uh pedagogy that

24:38

has sought to disconnect males from traditional masculin this comes from outside then also we have

24:50

to come to terms that that Muslims ourselves have been disconnected from our tradition and

24:56

this was also something intentionally done by colonialists and neoc colonialists and sometimes

25:05

we adopt or look at Islam in a very autodidactic almost Protestant tradition type of way right so

25:15

this the whole TR tradition of asan and being connected to chains of transmission and not

25:24

just to onlyy purposes or for knowledge but also to to be connected to chains of narration where

25:31

men take from men take from men that also learn the adab of the teacher who also benefit from

25:39

the a the spiritual states of those teachers has been disconnected and in many places in

25:46

our community and I've seen traveled around quite a bit um what teach a little bit of fi in in our

25:55

Sinners because the majority of Muslims children don't go to uh Islamic schools to begin with uh

26:02

they teach a little of maybe how the the fifth of tahara somewhat proper uh how to make Salah how

26:11

to fast Ramadan um a little less uh AKA and maybe that's Tau incorrectly and then little to know um

26:25

emphasis on IM on spiritual warfang in which this discipline of fua has a direct connection to the

26:35

knowledge of spiritual warfame that's not just learned by picking up books but is also learned

26:43

from the spiritual states of teachers so um this disconnect was purposely placed in the Muslim mind

26:55

and then we ourselves have been reproducing uh almost neocolonial Frameworks of how we even view

27:01

our own tradition how we even talk about Islam right all right so all of this is I'm I'm sorry

27:07

for the longin answer but yeah I I believe all of these things are connected that fair how much

27:12

are you responding to the current debates of of sort of the red pill movement you know where um

27:19

you've got people like Andrew Tate who argue that who argue a certain form of masculine masculinity

27:25

and many believe in Muslims many prac Muslims have embraced and adopted that form of of sort of of

27:32

masculinity well this book is a a subtle response to that I've done several uh workshops and we've

27:40

discussed this uh a number of uh localities and cities and uh Mr Andrew Tate's name had been

27:47

brought up uh uh specifically so we what what we do many these discussions we have to um reset the

27:58

so we say that the figure for sacred masculinity the primary figure

28:06

is he is the model he's the beautiful model of this sacred masculinity and his view of of of

28:22

of of how he talked about human relations and how he dealt with women women is very

28:29

different from the red pill movement so the red pill movement for instance talks about women almost as being like Commodities or being properties um a real man seeks to be responsible

28:43

and a caretaker for women so one can't be a high value man or a real man who never been married

28:51

who has no responsibility about women right or who talks about women as if they property that

28:58

to do with the Quran and Sunnah some of this has to do with resetting the prophet was described was

29:05

as right so as a loving compassionate Mercy for all the worlds which includes dealing

29:18

with children which includes dealing with women which includes dealing with elderly so there's a time to be firm there's a there's a time to be resolute in times of hostility but

29:31

generally speaking this endeavor of foua that we point back to the prophet and our teachers

29:38

is about kindness is about generosity is about prefer preferring uh others over ourselves

29:49

which includes preferring not just physical Comfort but also even preferring the feelings

29:58

of women right that we don't try to intentionally hurt women's healings by talking rough to them

30:06

and talking down if I can just give a couple of examples of this just just just very just very

30:13

briefly right because we're talking about this whole thing about red pill and actually I think

30:18

the red pill movement actually is unmanly because it it lowers manliness only down to the the level

30:28

of a Meda or materialism and that's good it's good I mean it's it's it's important in a sense that

30:34

men need to work right men need to to to to go out and get educated and like get a job uh physical

30:43

fitness is also uh very important grooming is also uh very important but we're talking

30:50

about metaphysical traits that inform physical manifestations so we're talking about of uh being

30:58

a man so for instance one uh well narrated um uh incident and this can be seen lumad and it's been

31:12

I'm pointing to this because this been translated into English so in the book of marriage uh we

31:19

know that the prophet Alam used to like the the cooking of one particular wife and we know that

31:25

some of the wives got jealous of other wives right uh so one of the wives and I'm not mentioning any

31:32

the wives names out of adab uh but they're but I could because they're mentioned in the narrations

31:38

right the prophet Alam had some of his beloved companions mayab be well pleased with them uh

31:46

at the home and then so one of the wives who had the nice dish brought over the food and but it was

31:53

in the home of the other wife the wife got jealous and turned over knocked the pot of food and wasted

32:04

all on the floor right did the prophet Alam stand up and supposedly put her in a place of woman what

32:14

you doing you're embarrassing me in front of my my house guests in front of the in front of these

32:20

men in front of the companions oh go clean that go clean that up and clean that pot up clean that off

32:27

the ground and go get us some food that wasn't his disposition at all he empathized with Hera with

32:36

her protective uh jealousy and he just said your mother fana B fan uh she's she's she's jealous

32:47

right all right now who would say that he's not a real man Sall Al wasallam that's the way that

32:54

he handled it he had emotional intelligence and he handled it not in the harsh way another

33:00

another example same wife same wife and this is the Gentle Way of how he would also lead by

33:09

example right because a man with his woman folk is supposed to lead by example right uh not just

33:18

do as I say but also do as I do so it's known and this is narrated uh Muslim and also other

33:31

narration the prophet Alam would be walking in Medina and there was a group of the Jewish

33:42

folk they clarifi that all the Jewish folk some of the Jewish folk would tell him death be upon

33:48

you so one day he's walking with the same wife may Allah be well pleased with with her they say to

34:01

him death be upon you oh Father El [ __ ] he says back and death be upon you another

34:14

W it says and death be upon you oh in God's curse his Lana laana means removal

34:25

of all Mercy Divine Mercy and and God's anger God's Wrath the prophet said calm

34:35

down calm down surely Allah is kind and he loves kindness in every Endeavor every matter

34:49

another surely Allah is kind he loves kindness he gives to the kind he doesn't give to the violent

35:02

so this is I think the first reference I've ever seen in human history where the word El is used

35:11

for Words rhetorical violence so there is so words can be violent because the prophet said so Sall

35:17

Al wasam right reason reason why I'm bringing this up is that he was kind in his correction

35:24

so she was like well what should I say he's basic paraphrasing if you have to say anything back just

35:30

sayum basically back at you if you have to say anything back so kind correction we uh we would

35:41

never say the prophet was a coward he was never a punk he had political Authority in Medina he could

35:47

have had those Jewish people whipped for those words he could have had them banished for those

35:54

words right but he wasn't uh a top G with them and he didn't like say her uh uh he didn't cheer her

36:05

on for for speech that was inappropriate nor when he found her speech to be inappropriate did he uh

36:14

chastise her shame her and and harshly rebuke her that's really interesting I how would you then

36:22

respond to I don't know there may be some people who watch uh today's conversation and say well

36:28

you know we live in a world where men have been sidelined and their roles and responsibilities have been completely maligned in this sort of modernity and um you know what you're talking

36:40

about this sensitivity this type of uh approach to women and approach to to others you know that

36:47

uh is is all part of his uh plan to emasculate for man and make them even weaker in the face of this

36:55

ideology and how would you respond to to to say a criticism well I say there a time and place for

37:00

everything but our masculinity our or our manhood should be on its own terms it doesn't have to be

37:10

viav in a response to how other people frame us as men so that's my that's my response in in in

37:18

in in itself to me that's a sign of weakness in of itself that one feels like they have to uh redef

37:28

what it means to who they are based upon the vision or the Gaze of other people including

37:34

people who don't even believe in Islam so we have our own standard that's the of alhabib

37:41

s alai wasallam who of course was extremely masculine he was physically fit he was the

37:49

most courageous of men he was firm when he need to be in battle Quran mention this m

38:01

right me it's him and the companions Muhammad is the messenger of God and those who are with Him

38:07

meaning the campaigns may Allah be well pleased with them are Stern against the disbelievers meaning in times of adversity in times of conflict but they are always merciful amongst themselves

38:19

the Believers and our women folk our Muslim mothers our Muslim wives our Muslim sisters our

38:29

Muslim daughters are included amongst they're included amongst those were're supposed to be

38:36

compassionate and merciful with so it's not uh it to uh my reading of this endeavor of

38:47

fua and we take from the likes of him and from Al Talib and Sal fari and the T and those of like uh

39:00

going toik ABD when we read about them and see what they taught these were men that went out

39:09

on rebal they all went out and they also talked about generosity and kindness and

39:18

that's and these are examples of of manhood and this is what we learned from our mashy uh

Loving and Loathing

39:24

there are a number of qualities you stress in your chap so each of your chapters talks about

39:30

a quality at a time let me pick up on a few of these qualities um you you discuss loving and

39:37

loing for the sake of Allah subhana wa tala explain explain that idea to me please okay

39:42

well one Iman is not complete according to the prophet sallallah alaihi wasallam until they

39:52

have is that they love for the sake of Allah waala and they somewhat say hate

40:04

but they loathe for the sake of Allah waala meaning that those things that

40:13

allaha loves and those people that he loves in which those people have certain

40:21

characteristics in which there are eight of them mention in the Quran right uh you

40:34

right these qualities uh we're supposed to love those qualities and love the embodyment of those

40:40

qualities and those people who strive to display those qualities anything that Allah says he does

40:50

not love any of those characteristics in which his Ang is upon his Lana is upon or that he has

41:03

given in the Quran L Divine threat of punishment we're supposed to Lo those right and this starts

41:13

in the inside and even if we can't speak out against those things because of particular

41:19

circumstance we should always despise those things in our hearts and this is something that a man

41:27

and has to have internally I I'll give I'll give you I'll give you one example right we

41:34

know that the um I'll use a term of our of our friend Dr Shadi uh almi in New Jersey he calls

41:43

the alphabet soup yes the alphabet soup movement maybe someone is in a job right in a particular

41:50

time because of their job role they have to deal with many different letters of alphabet

41:59

soup right and they may be in a circumstance where they have to give some sort of service

42:06

to someone within the alphabet soup that their job requires right even if that service has to be

42:17

done it should be despised and hated inside that that that that that particular letter of the soup

42:27

and that they should always uh loath it and they want that person to leave that letter

42:36

within the soup even if they can't say uh say anything about because of those professional reasons Allah says don't incline inwardly towards those who are doing out out outward wrong

42:57

least you shall touch the fire you should touch the Hellfire right so in the prophet Saidi from

43:04

abim if any if any of you sees AAR you should do what to try to change it be y if you have the

43:14

authority if you can't then resist it be L you speak out against it but there are times that

43:21

you can't right so you said well then at least resist it in your heart hate it in your your

43:27

heart loathing your heart the this is the weakest form of faith if you're able to speak out against

43:33

it but sometimes there's certain circumstances that that that we can't speak out against but

43:39

the point of it is real men should never be a apathetic towards that which is displeasing

43:47

to Allah and his messenger sallallah alaihi wasallam and if that becomes uh a or normalized

43:57

amongst a group of males this makes the community weaker it it brings weakness into the community

44:04

I've seen in America even in the um we're we're we've only been able to make a comeback from it

44:10

right in in recent years but a social politically is weaken the community where we have males who

44:17

have appeared to be speaking on behalf of a community that has so much cowardice and or

44:25

we're apathetic about that which is hateful to Allah tala they would not only speak out

44:31

against it make excuses for it that we're supposed to support it under these are our

44:36

allies well that's not manly and when people in leadership who who look like men don't have this

44:46

bolt for the sake of Allah waala then it erods having true shivy uh uh W with within the Muslim

44:58

Community within the prophetic Paradigm he talk about Vigilant care this is a term that we hear

45:05

actually in a way to confirm some sort of red pill masculinity on social media so explain the to to

45:12

me please yeah I I translate it as Vigilant care yeah because normally when we he hear

45:19

the word jealousy jealousy normally carries a um a protective jealousy normally carries

45:28

a negative connotation and sometimes people think of Hass which of course is is sinful right we say

45:35

protective we're not looking at um uh a belief or a group of people as property right but it

45:47

is a type of vigilant care that we have spiritual investment and responsibility as men of Defending

45:59

so the first thing we're supposed to have G for is not any person it's suppos suppos to be for de

46:06

Islam is for the Quran right if someone goes out to slur the Quran or desecrate the Quran we're

46:13

supposed to have for the Quran right if there is someone who's mocking the prophet s we shouldn't

46:21

be apathetic about it like we shouldn't say oh let's go out and support let's file a lawsuit

46:30

to support the Free Speech rights of someone who wants to slur the prophet sallallah right

46:36

we're supposed to have for the prophet for his family right for his wives if someone if someone

46:47

Slanders his his wives or accus one of his wives of sexual immorality right we should have for the

46:59

wives may Allah be well pleased with him right also having as men for our women folk likewise I

47:10

mentioned that that you know the wise themselves of the Prophet Sall Alam uh had even had a level

47:19

of for him this is one of the things that was brought up and this can be read in the history

47:24

of IB cath of of um Sal right when uh the prophet proposed to her she hesitated and she gave three

47:34

reasons and one reason was that she's mentioned she is she she felt like she'd have a problem you

47:40

know uh be because of the other the other wives uh and he gave he gave her a response to that

47:48

uh for that and two other things which satisfied her and and she uh became one of the mothers of

47:54

Believers may Allah be well pleased with her so we should have level of vigilant care and

48:03

wanting to stand up and defend the honor of that which we value and this relates to our Justice

48:12

that doesn't mean transcending or transgressing the boundaries of Shar the has to be within the

48:18

boundaries of the the Sharia the sacred law and I've said this um I don't think I mentioned this

48:24

in the book but I've said almost every talk in response to this issue of that a real man should

48:30

be willing to give his life for his wife right A real man should be living to give the willing to

48:37

give his life for his wife but even when it comes to the protectiveness of okay let's go back again

48:45

we mentioned uh ali uh may Allah be well pleased with him we mentioned him earlier an example of this courage but also this protectiveness of the Prophet Sall Alam is we know when

48:58

of Hijra when the prophet abak sik went to make Hijra it was Ali who was willing to give his

49:08

life for the prophet sallallah wasam right and also this is b toar as well right of his of his

49:17

altruism he preferred the prophet safety over his own safety right but he had so much care

49:25

for the prophets s Alam and uh this is this is something of manhood so if anyone is trying to

49:34

um uh say that in our discourse of fua that we're uh trying to um be weak or to um mold ourselves

49:47

to a type of so-called simp Narrative of of of of an emasculated male according to uh radical

49:56

Western fism that's definitely not what what we're referring to uh and how we point to the

50:02

to the Sun to the way of the honorable and the companions of the prophet and their spiritual

50:08

inheritors how important is it to study the uh battles of the Prophet alisat wasam when when

50:15

trying to embody these uh great characteristics of fat and courage and and you know uh the the

50:23

companionship and the Brotherhood that comes out of uh of that well this the the elazi literature

50:32

a literature of thewa was something that was studied by uh the early Generations by the Sals

50:39

uh before we had extensive books more so on S orar in Islamic history uh El elazi or this

50:49

literature talking about the battles was of the first things that was written down uh by the uh

50:56

by the early Muslims I believe I believe was of the first ones that wrote specifically about this

51:03

whichi uh uses I believe that uh Ian uh hisam uh points back to this as well there a lot of

51:12

lessons that we can learn uh about the uh the the different uh military campaigns um that right to

51:21

F honesty and truthfulness and

51:27

intention discipline also what happens negatively when the discipline is lost

51:38

like in for for instance is a primary example uh courage when odds look against uh the us

51:48

or against the Muslims better is a very uh good example uh of this yeah um M sure

51:57

or with with the whole issue actually is is probably its proper name but it's known as kand

52:08

which is a Persian word because of the ditch yes um consultation yeah yeah yeah so there's a lot of

52:14

different things consultation sure that that that that that that that came from that um also uh the

52:24

different roles that need to be played everyone needs to play their part everyone needs to get

52:29

in with their where they fit where they fit in everyone's not meant to do the same role but we

52:35

should all have one heart in reaching the same objective we also learn this from the from the

52:41

uh from the battles also also this issue of ethar of altruism and preferring uh others over oneself

52:52

and I think the uh uh yarm the Battle of Y MO is a prime example of this where we have the story of

52:59

the Three companions uh is one of those right where uh the Muslims had uh gotten um wounded

53:14

the number of the companions people there were were Gravely wounded and it was very uh hot that

53:21

day and you know people were bleeding and the water being passed around and and the war was

53:28

was presented to the first sahabi right uh no uh he saw his brother next to him that's look more

53:35

injured now give give my brother the water then go to the next sahabi and he said no give the

53:41

other brother my water returns back to the first sahabi he achieves midom then the second sahabi

53:50

yeah achieved maram the third achieved maram so we learn this we see this this altruism you

53:57

know having each other's backs so there's so many things that could be learned that the men uh need

54:03

to to learn and also U I think that Resurrection eral did a good job of this as well um maybe one

54:11

or two things we could say they're historically inaccurate or maybe not shy compliant yes but uh

54:17

overall I liked it because it showed this code of honor this F even with the train because in

54:25

a in life life there has to be preparation if one is looking for Success right so there's a

54:33

saying about he who fails to plan plans to fail so we also saw this even with the with thewa in

54:42

uro but the sahaba the same thing they had to be training you right there has to be shooting of you

54:48

know has to be uh archery and practicing with the sword and doing physical exercises to get fit but

54:54

this is these are life lessons and I and I learned this playing American football right that there I

55:00

learned a lot of valuable lessons going through the rigger uh the the uh the physical sacrifice

55:08

and and becoming very tired and and and in this discipline I learned a lot through that experience

55:14

that helped me in in other aspects of Life later on had nothing to do with with Athletics or

55:20

actually uh going out on a battlefield uh Imam will when we talk about sacred chivalry um is

Sacred Chivalry

55:29

there a an a a particular prototype of a person that should come out of uh of this tbia program

55:38

or is it more of an acceptable spectrum because we know that from the sahaba with we had some sahaba

55:46

who were more short-tempered than others and some sahaba who were who were uh far more intelligent

55:53

in in the way they approached a strategic problem then another one maybe you know and um that isn't

55:59

to belit to any any of the S but everyone had different levels of aptitude and ability and

56:06

even adherence sometimes to uh or or even sort of emotional intelligence they call it today and

56:14

and so people have different qualities and uh how much is this is there a like an acceptable

56:21

Spectrum here uh of uh because you know a lot of what you you say today you know I'm I'm reflecting

56:27

on myself and thinking I don't carry that or I'm I'm off this particular issue or Subhan Allah I pray I could be better at you know showing X or Y so potentially there is sort of a danger of

56:38

having you know a very a very narrow um specimen of an individual that we should we should be uh

56:46

we should be we should be as as Muslims I hope that questions yeah yeah for sure so there should

56:51

be a general Baseline that all men are striving to uh to fulfill and keep in man this issue has

57:02

a bed without right as a beginning without an end and we are we should all be in this muah uh from

57:11

now until the day that that mle M comes and takes our souls right uh so but there are some basic uh

57:19

we can say requirements of of manhood uh both according to the secret law and to like right

57:30

that we should have now in regards to individual there there is a certain range or spectrum of of

57:38

of of acceptability in manhood right Allah lot gave all of us different gifts and we all have

57:49

we all come from one this primordial nature but the Shakil that Allah Allah gave one man he gives

57:59

to a different man right so for instance we know that like for instance uh the the of of of or was

58:09

shyness right he was known to be very shy the that Ali is most known for is is right is is is courage

58:20

right like on on the battlefield he's known for courage right doesn't mean that that that [Music]

58:28

was less masculine than El of course not right but there there's a different uh shakula that that

58:36

they that Allah gave each one so when it comes to uh under the sacred law right we know that Allah

58:46

waala has given generally speaking a baseline right so number one and and this transcends gender

58:56

but those things that are are far and we must fulfill right so uh lifting a bunch of weight

59:05

and making a lot of money uh is more important to lift the bed sheets off of the bed at 5: in the

59:12

morning for to to pray feder prayer on time then to lift a whole bunch of of weights right that

59:19

there's there's priorities um a man should want to take on responsibility of taking care of his

59:28

family right and in this we can't say that Orajel uh single also includes the women if

59:40

we were talking about we say like like our mother was if we're talking about Hadith in her opinions

59:51

on looking at some matters she was a rajel right in in in that we can say like a man but she was

59:59

not a man man in that sense men are the ones who are supposed to be the custodians and the ones

1:00:07

who look out to protect women all right and this is a Sher responsibility for uh a man being Mah

1:00:16

for a woman to being a w like a woman can't be AIA for her daughters for marriage that's that's

1:00:22

the that's that's the job of a of a man right uh that's according to the Sharia of of the

1:00:28

obligation of of NE right now in a marriage uh a woman can can make more money than a man and

1:00:36

she could forfeit that right of NE but at the same time that uh that Baseline responsibility

1:00:46

is a man's underneath the marriage but even if he's not providing NE he's supposed to provide

1:00:52

the physical protection of that woman if he is a ble to right so there's some basic uh sh things

1:00:59

now when it comes to uh sometimes there may be uh a man who is um his emotional intelligence that

1:01:11

word that you use maybe his empathy is a little more and this causes him to be more generous right

1:01:19

because when we look at the difference between the words at least in linguistic aspect of of

1:01:25

and El Jude for inst in Arabic both of these words uh carry the meaning of generosity uh but

1:01:34

Dr he mentioned this this Rel to B in Arabic language that a person who is uh

1:01:47

who is generous who has excuse mewa right is one who has uh this generosity they

1:01:56

give when someone gives them if someone has Jude and the Jad they have the emotional intelligence

1:02:04

and empathy they can see when a person's in need and they will go and give that person in need

1:02:13

even when they don't ask this is a a higher this is a higher level of spirituality all

1:02:20

of us aren't going to have that right does that mean that a person's less than a man if he have

1:02:25

that empathy I can't spot that no but there's different right there there's different spiritual

1:02:32

levels and just generally speaking all women aren't on the same uh spiritual level either and

1:02:39

even amongst the sahabat right um there were there were some women uh that were on higher levels than

1:02:47

other even amongst the female companions one final question for you so alhamdulillah I mean this has been really enlightening and um I'm sure a lot of our viewers would would like to read your book um

Implementing Futuwwah

1:02:58

but as you said you know that this needs to be put into practice and we need to inculcate it into our

1:03:04

tbia programs across our madrasas around the world we need to have a special place for f um how do we

1:03:14

go about doing this like what are the practical steps we need to take uh to uh to to start on

1:03:21

this journey so before going through history and theoretics as want to point to some people in the

1:03:27

UK and then also in America okay right so in the UK you have shik Ibrahim OA who' been dealing with

1:03:35

this issue of foua for for a while I'm not sure if he's in Bradford now or Birmingham uh but he's

1:03:41

in the UK you have uh the wonderful job that uh um Nar and and also U Molen awesome Au who wrote the

1:03:51

for word there at Crea Foundation uh in high and they're doing uh work uh around this issue of fua

1:04:00

and they've established basically I believe four out of the five elements of what we could say are

1:04:07

proper fua Guild um yeah and I yeah yeah and I'm going to explain this Guild situation in a moment

1:04:15

we have our brother in Sweden uh s Jamal Dean Miri uh beautiful brother Iranian sunmi uh who's in uh

1:04:25

in in Sweden who works on this issue of of fatua and he's also worked with Dr rebent Turk uh from

1:04:33

from Turkey who who's written about fatua I think he's inq now and then in America if you want to

1:04:38

come to Detroit and come to Darman ABD Y and also the Yi brother we've been working on this this uh

1:04:46

as well and there's been others um CD um Hamza Perez with the rights of Passage of young men

1:04:54

in in America who's in Pittsburg with the she Jama ofik Dano and andik uh Muhammed mindes as

1:05:04

well who's based down in in Houston Texas so these are some people you can point directly at that have been involved in this endeavor of this Taria fua now historically speaking let's

1:05:16

go back I mentioned for fua Gil we we have some basic we could say like uh like there's

1:05:25

five pillars of Islam like bu we can say basically there's five pillars of a fatua guild so there

1:05:34

weren't gills in the time of sahabah but these aspects were in the time of sahabah and they were

1:05:41

what we can say systematized under the time of of the abassin and specifically under the Sultan

1:05:49

of was a man of learning and letters uh he's one of the um he's one of the saltine of the

1:05:59

abassin who was you know we could say uh fairly uh just and educated there were quite a few bad

1:06:07

ones like El mum and elesim who put Imam Ahmed and others through uh horrible uh treatment um

1:06:17

this was during the time ofik Abdul Jani H uh in the time of the fatua guilds and

1:06:25

is basically you have certain things you have first uh the teaching of the young

1:06:33

males manners etiquette comportment comes first yeah adab better is we could say is

1:06:44

to give everyone and everything is proper due at the proper place and time yeah so this is a type of Taria of we could say emotional intelligence yeah

1:06:55

right so this adab is taught and this is putting young people in environments in which they uh view

1:07:06

adab continuously through repetition and then they are placed into environments of of learning adab

1:07:14

and and and I'll I'll give some examples as I'm going through the second is in t where the young

1:07:22

men uh have to know their religious obligations starting firstly with what are those things that

1:07:31

one must know properly to be a proper Muslim right and this is summed up in uh as we were

1:07:39

taught by our teachers as Mel what is faith inel those three questions were asked what is

1:07:48

Faith would represent Creed right what is Islam Islam representam just list to the Five Pillars

1:07:58

rulings reg regulations and then uh what isan spiritual Beauty Excellence this represents

1:08:09

tesia and Sal right the purification of the heart these three fundamental Sciences so first what

1:08:18

Islam 101 what one must know and then the forign iron that relates to um this uh what is Islam

1:08:26

should be taught and and according to one of the establishment right no cherry picking and picking

1:08:34

and choosing because um that's it yeah because yeah one would just pick and choose uh according

1:08:41

to their H right I I don't I don't believe in in in uh especially for a people who haven't studied

1:08:48

a single uh metan of any maab want to say lhab like no that's that's incorrect especially for

1:08:55

for young people who have access to um all sorts of uh misinformation about Islam online that's

1:09:02

a bad message so that's the second the third aspect is what we can call uh the uh community

1:09:18

service and this is where the these things that they've been learning especially from the adapt

1:09:28

is put into practice yes right so part of the rearing is teaching young men how to be selfless

1:09:36

instead of selfish right so for instance I give you an example in Detroit of like what we've what

1:09:43

we've what we've done so we have regular malalis we push the the young people forward right so what

1:09:53

they do is that we have a a a a for the for the so there's like someone who likes to charcoal and

1:10:02

then for the burning of the during the mag right then there's someone who comes and serves the tea

1:10:12

but they learn what's the tar the proper order of who should be served in the magj the are serve

1:10:19

first then the elders then you go to the younger people and you start off serving with your right

1:10:25

hand and going around there's an adab to it also in the service uh feeding people right uh in the

1:10:35

um we've had soup kitens and also food banks but it's not giving people handouts when there's a

1:10:42

serving of food sitting directly with the people on on the same level in eating the same food they

1:10:51

eat right uh shik Abdul k gilani used to feed people in his madrasa actually I've been to

1:10:57

Baghdad three times now I went to his Masid that W that he started is still is still ongoing Allah

1:11:03

abbar right shik Abdul Kad jilani said that if he was given the entire dun in his hand he would use

1:11:11

it to feed the people oh so it's it's community service learning this community service the fourth

1:11:21

of this is this the sacred Athletics right archery is Sunnah we believe it's bar anything the prophet

1:11:32

Sall alaihi wasallam did and taught the sahaba how to do martial arts there's physical fitness but

1:11:39

also teaches discipline and Precision in these two Endeavors um we've had these things ongoing taking

1:11:48

the young men out to learn how to ride horses right there's a certain respect you have to have for horses and a certain level of of of care you can get thrown from that horse and get hurt very

1:11:59

badly if you don't deal with that horse properly right um swimming the prophet is something that

1:12:06

was encouraged right um so there there's something uh but there's also other benefits like we've

1:12:14

taken the young men out hunting so in America you can do this you can go deer hunting there's even like a uh their deer hunting season you go bow and arrow but also a firearm but they go is something

1:12:26

empowering for young men to to go hunting and kill a deer or an animal or a wild turkey and then they

1:12:32

can eat off of what they they killed according to the Sharia right and the last part of these that

1:12:39

was in the traditional fatua Gill is The Artisans ship it's learning a skill trade it's something

1:12:48

empowering about learning how to do something with the hands so in the time of the abassin young men

1:12:54

learned uh how to be a blacksmith horseshoes had to be made swords had to be made someone had to

1:13:06

know how to make the the arrows for the bows even like making jewelry like the wearing a a silver

1:13:13

ring this is a son of the Prophet s according toari and others he wore he wore a silver ring

1:13:21

um there were other trades so that these young men could learn a trade to assist the umah but

1:13:31

also learn a trade to know how to do something with their hands to support a family so of course

1:13:39

they were taught how reading and writing but they also were taught a skill trade which we could all

1:13:44

call this industrial education these are the five pillars of a proper fatoua Guild I think that all

1:13:52

young men need to learn how to do something with their hands right we all need to be striving to be

1:13:58

fit right uh we all should be doing some sort of service to the community and I'm I'm taking these

1:14:07

backwards right we all need to know our religious uh uh obligations what we must believe to be a

1:14:14

proper Muslim those pillars of faith and be to understand them explain those to people right

1:14:20

and our far and and we must be able to have proper compartment first with Allah and his

1:14:29

messenger uh even saying salaat after his name is is part of the Adam yeah and not raising our

1:14:37

voices loud in front of his C in El Medina and also our adab with our Mash our teachers

1:14:43

our community leaders our parents that they're still alive and then also even knowing proper

1:14:50

adab with the having proper adab with our woman folk and our wives right all of the

1:14:56

are is what we need to be striving in our tbia in our in our madaris in our Islamic centers uh

1:15:04

you for for programs and needs to be investment in in in in this uh material investment uh to

1:15:15

help with the human capital in these things you what can we have for two training for 30 and 40

Futuwwah training

1:15:21

year olds as well because I think we have uh you know all of us are missing these really important

1:15:27

conversations in our community and I think it's it's necessary probably most definitely i s to

1:15:32

said hi Wickham actually this book was launched in the UK actually it didn't launch in America

1:15:37

it launched here in the UK right but I quoted something um that said in West Africa that uh

1:15:45

you can't give a thirsty man a drink when your cup is empty so we also have to have humility to know

1:15:53

that maybe there's something that we miss coming up that we need to get a reclaim and um you know

1:16:01

there were some things that I learned from my my environment I had to unlearn and what shik

1:16:10

Oran Dano also know as shik man B foodi the great revivor um wedded uh from the hous of land which

1:16:19

is now Niger and Nigeria he talked about this in in in in carbia and rectification is that we as

1:16:28

men have to struggle to do what feels unnatural until it becomes natural to us so some things

1:16:37

maybe we learn like all like some of this stuff some of our youth have learned about this whole top G and some of this Andrew Tate red pill stuff yes some of this stuff we have to unlearn maybe

1:16:48

on Other Extreme maybe we were raised as Mama as Mama's Boys and we were pampered too much and didn't learn how to do anything for ourselves right maybe some of that has to be unlearned and

1:16:58

we need to struggle against that right so there's we all have to to do uh we have to be sincere and

1:17:05

do introspection and uh I'll I'll end what Malcolm X said as a parallel he said uh the shame is not

1:17:14

once to have been a criminal the shame is to remain a criminal so just opposing that

1:17:20

or analogy the shame is not having not acquired some of this tarbia or some of this some of these

1:17:28

traits when we were younger the shame is to know that we don't have it and we are apathetic and

1:17:35

not striving to get them now can we change at any end yes we can yes we can we can change I

1:17:41

I I can say this that if wahi har habashi became Muslim who killed one of the best men of his time

1:17:57

who then later killed the worst man of the time the false prophet if he could change to go from disbelief

1:18:09

in kufur and treachery to Islam and doing the bidding of the Prophet Sall

1:18:19

Alam if he could do it hey most of us haven't committed murder or killed any uh people or

1:18:28

or weren't drunkards like like like wasi was so yes yes we can change it's never too late

1:18:36

IM it's been a fascinating conversation thank you so much for your time thank you please remember to subscribe to our social media and YouTube channels and head

1:18:48

over to our website thinking muslim.com to sign up to my Weekly Newsletter ja

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