Ep 191. - Young US Muslims and Trump

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As part of Muhammad Jalal’s conversations with young Muslims from around the world, he speaks with Mosaab and Watfae about the Trump presidency and what this will mean for young Muslims.

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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation

Introduction

0:00

I can definitely say that the dread exists  however it's not remorseful and it's very   clear that there is an assertion  of listen political Agency for me  

0:11

they're the same blue red doesn't matter  they're kind of the same thing and if we   made it through Trump the first we'll  make it through the second time there  

0:17

was no strategy at all to their campaigning  they thought we were dumb enough to fall for that well guys for for coming along and um uh I  suppose want to get a feel for how young people  

0:32

in America are anticipating it all or otherwise  the the Trump presidency and um you know I I've  

0:41

I've spoken to a lot of people from as you know  in in in the states throughout the the election   campaign uh but I haven't spoken to very many  young people I'm afraid and and it would be good  

0:51

to get get a feel for how how things are I mean  uh we've got watur and and musab with us today um  

1:00

well for I think you're based in Chicago right  yes and wasab you're in New York and um yeah I  

1:06

just want to get get an impression of how things  are for you and like you know is there a is there  

1:13

a uh a sense of Shad with a trump presidency what  like what's going on just give us the lay of the  

1:19

land and what for you may want to you may want  to begin to let us things um so yeah honestly  

Dread for Trump?

1:26

like not I don't want to say there's no sense of  dread I I'm kind of at a point where I don't care   anymore um so for me from president to president  they're kind of all and I want to say they're the  

1:36

same because everyone has they do their own damage  right but I feel like what we were dealing with  

1:42

where we had a sitting president where we were  constantly expressing our concerns and we helped   get him elected and everything and we were just  like basically to into a wall like nothing was  

1:52

getting through when it came down to election time  I was like I don't really care anymore I'm like   they're for me they're the same blue red doesn't  matter they're kind of the same thing um and if we  

2:01

made it through Trump the first time we'll make it  through the second time but I'm not I don't want   my vote to go to to democratic party just for the  sake of trump not winning like I feel like that  

2:10

was just not that's not a really good strategy and  it wasn't something morally that felt good for me  

2:16

so I mean you're a Palestinian right so is that  was that the like the um uh the impression is that  

2:21

the impression of most young Palestinians in in  your community yeah I think so most Palestinians  

2:27

in my community either didn't go out to vote  at all um or like they went out to vote and   they voted independent but I know a lot of people  that also just said like H us like we're just not  

2:35

gonna We're Not Gonna vote like it's not worth  it um but I think Chicago is it's a different   situation because Illinois is like always blue um  because of the the dense population of Chicago so  

2:47

some people in Illinois were kind of just like  not that our vote doesn't matter but like our   vote really doesn't matter like we're going to  be blue regardless yeah I think similar to New  

2:54

York New York was a you know was very much a blue  State um although funny enough it had the biggest  

3:00

right shift since 40 years uh this past election  but because it is a blue St I know a lot of people  

3:07

specifically Muslim youth they really had very  heavy voter apathy where they were like look  

3:12

either way wherever I vote and also New York  was one of the only states where Joe Stein   wasn't actually on the ballot so if you wanted to  vote third party you had to write them in yeah so  

3:23

yeah that really pushed a lot of voter apathy um  amongst Muslim Youth and the Egyptians have afraid  

3:30

where which means like you know it's broken  either way it's broken this way broken that way  

3:35

it doesn't matter so um so that I can definitely  say was you know a popular sentiment amongst also  

3:43

another like sorry with the ren situation that  was also another just like for lack of better  

3:48

it's so annoying especially for like Arab voters  in America like my dad's an immigrant so like we  

3:54

literally like we have to write it out for him  like this is the name you are writing in in the   blank like it's so it's very like you said it's  a tactic I don't know the right words for it but  

4:02

it's just very like stupid I hate it but what is  that idea I mean I've I've never come across in  

Writing on Ballot?

4:07

UK we don't have such a concept right if someone's  not in a ballot you can't vote for them so explain   his writing business yeah someone's not in a  ballot you just write their name in and like  

4:18

in the election that gorilla got like a bunch of  votes har har R got I think he actually might have  

4:27

even gotten second in local election District  in Ohio if I'm not wrong yeah like people could  

4:34

just write in whatever they want that's why like  people actually want to run that are not on the   ballot have to be very strategic about like their  their marketing and their campaigning because like  

4:43

they need to get enough people to actually write  their name in so in some states Jill Stein was   on the ballot but in others like she wasn't so  it was that's a deterrent like no one's going  

4:51

to want to sit there and be like okay let me after  bubbling in all these bubbles let me write in Jill   Stein and let me write in like her vice president  like that's just it's a lot of work wow okay yeah  

Feeling on ground

5:01

so so what is the feeling then on the ground with  a trump presidency in January like are people you  

5:08

know you've said what that it doesn't matter you  know it's it's almost like they're the same uh but  

5:13

surely there is this you know I I spoke to people  who said who said to me that uh Donald Trump at  

5:19

least domestically if not internationally is going  to be pretty horrendous for Muslims there's quite   a bit of dread particularly in the undocumented  community so a lot of some New Yorkers in  

5:30

particular in New York City are undocumented  and there's a lot of dread around them because  

5:35

undocumented meaning they just don't have papers  migrant papers yes they're they're not you know   citizens or even even people who are on green  cards even they're also worried and scared uh  

5:46

even if you do have uh paperwork because again it  is in America's history to actually support people  

5:52

have paperwork um but then aside from that they're  confident that when Trump you know goes around  

5:59

talking about deporting uh as he says illegal  immigrants um he means them he doesn't mean the  

6:05

majority of you know undocumented people who are  actually European uh he knows that like they know  

6:12

and at least the feeling is that they are actually  the first people who are on the chopping block  

6:17

um even if they actually do possess some level  of paperwork and even in a place like New York   that's considered a sanctuary State and New York  City which is considered a sanctuary City uh I can  

6:27

definitely say that the dread exists however it's  not remorseful very important to note The Dread is  

6:34

not remorseful um and it's very clear that there  is an assertion of listen political agency in the  

6:44

election this time around um and that even though  there is a lot of dread coming with Trump there is  

6:49

zero confidence that this wouldn't have happened  with Harris and the reality is that a lot of  

6:56

people uh what they why I've been hearing from a  lot of people is that you know Democrats probably  

7:01

would have deported just as many people just to  kind of prove themselves to the Republicans um and  

7:07

what we voted on was standing up against genocide  and that's definitely worth it yeah I think the No  

7:14

Remorse thing is a is a big point cuz I think well  for us we don't have that in Illinois not the same  

7:20

type of situation with immigration but I know like  people that were supportive of the Palestinian  

7:27

cause maybe weren't Muslim weren't Palestinian  but they were just like allies looking at the   election now they're like well we're going to lose  like abortion rights we're going to lose a lot of  

7:36

like educational things are going to go wrong like  right now he's already talking about getting rid   of the doe which is insane but anyway um like  that we're he's going to change a lot of things  

7:47

but there's no remorse on our side but there is  remorse on the Ally side where people that don't  

7:52

have that strong affiliation to Palestine or like  Muslim causes in general they are starting to kind   of pull back in a way where they're like shoot  what just do like look at what we have to deal  

8:01

with Now versus like us it's kind of like like how  you said like I don't care like if it's done it's  

8:07

done like we're we're in it anyway and either  way no one was to say under Harris it was going   to be any better so we're kind of just we're  here that's really interesting so do you feel  

Tactical voting

8:16

that younger people I I want to pick up on that  point that you guys talked about that there is   now agency amongst amongst Muslims like it going  forward do we feel that in the next election next  

8:26

few elections younger people are going to be far  more Tactical when it comes to voting or is is you  

8:32

know the the conversation is once Gaza declines  inshah it does you know things get you know are  

8:37

improved in Gaza but once Gaza becomes less of  a headline um things are going to move on and  

8:43

and voting patterns will return to normal I mean  is that How likely is that I think it depends on  

8:50

I want say the outcome because I don't even if  you ask me a year ago I would not have thought   this would be still happening so like I guess it  all just depends on how things progress moving  

8:58

forward like I think if PE if it progresses to the  way it looks like it's progressing where it's just  

9:04

kind of going to ride its way out and Lea is going  to cease to exist I feel like there's going to be   a lot more apathy from young voters in America  where like we're not like that sentiment I've  

9:14

expressed like I just don't care um if we see that  our actions are actually hitting the hearts of you  

9:20

know our politicians and it's making a difference  that could inspire a next wave of people or  

9:26

honestly even the lack of action could inspire a  wave of young people to get involved politically  

9:31

maybe running for positions maybe and we've seen  that already um but on a smaller scale so maybe  

9:37

Wella maybe like in four years from now it'll be  on a larger scale but yeah I think it's um it's   also going to depend on who strikes the iron uh  what are the organizations and the groups that are  

9:47

going to really take bold stances so far there has  been some you know bold stances that's been taken  

9:53

we've seen you know and and many of the stances  even can be considered not objectively bold but  

10:00

if we take it and compare it to what has happened  you know or what the track record has been for  

10:05

the past 20 years uh for an organization like usmo  the US Council of M organizations to come out and  

10:11

endorse voting third party in swing States costing  their you know Democratic ties that they've spent  

10:18

the last four years even more building uh that's  that's a big move that shows that there is you  

10:24

know a level of agency being asserted here  and it does show that there is a willing  

10:29

this to take bold stances even when it is hesitant  at times and I think whoever is able to mobilize  

10:35

you know the spark that's a that has been lit  frankly across Muslim youth is going to yield a  

10:41

lot of interance I think that also depends on like  location like places like New York Chicago like  

10:48

that have very large organizing um Powers when it  comes to youth versus like smaller States like I  

10:55

have I have a friend in Nebraska who like their  organizing efforts are a lot smaller and it's a   lot harder for them to do anything so I think it  would just it depends on location as well yeah and  

11:05

more so than ever I expect there will be like a  lean into local organizing focusing especially if  

11:11

we're talking about elections leaning into winning  local seats I know there is talk for example about  

11:17

um when I say local it could be local to the  level of you know city and state but I mean   also even federally local so things like Congress  specifically House of Representatives there is  

11:26

definitely talk I've been in many conversations  folks across the country who are starting   to identify key Zionist Democrats who are in  vulnerable positions uh for the midterm election  

11:36

when everyone goes to sleep midterm elections  are not High Fidelity turnouts generally speaking   right now might be a little different it depends  uh on the polarity obviously but even at the  

11:46

highest polarity in an election like 2018 which  I personally worked uh the turnout was higher  

11:52

than expected but even the expectation wasn't as  high compared to you know other democracies so  

11:58

you know in in a situation like that there are  people who are identifying vulnerable Zionist  

12:05

Democrats who played a key figure in uh you know  pushing the Zionist narrative and supporting  

12:11

Israel's genocide and they are looking to punch  them in the ballots uh and the idea is that you  

12:16

know if you're able to break further that air of  invincibility uh that you know APAC and zus Lobby  

12:26

has been able to put out almost within attitude of  D the consequences mainly because the consequences  

12:32

are you know going to happen either way one two  three Congress people aren't going to change the   vote on Israel yet but they will break the era  of in invincibility and that that's really the  

12:43

point of the participation here but is that limit  of your like Ambitions like you know you do got   you have in House of Representatives you have  Muslims you know you have people who are um you  

Muslims in politics

12:54

know I I know they're controversial figures but at  least there are Muslims in the house of represent  

12:59

and Whata what what's your what's your take on  some of those I mean as a Palestinian as a young   Muslim um you know how effective have they  been on on the the cause of Gaza it's tough  

13:10

because like for me when it comes to I'm a firm  believer and something that like my dad raised   me with was like we take what support we can get  whether Muslim or non-muslim whether Palestinian  

13:18

nonp Palestinian if they're going to stand  up for our rights like unconditionally then   they have our support they don't have to be  Muslim and I think that's a big thing that we  

13:29

as Muslims we kind I don't want to say we blindly  follow like oh that person wears a hijab let's all   go vote for them or like that person leads like  jam H let's go vote for them and like we don't ask  

13:38

any questions we don't see like what they're going  to do we don't ask what they think we don't they  

13:43

and then they end up being puppets or they end up  just like not really caring or not caring about   the causes that should matter to the Muslim so in  a broad scheme like of things we don't really have  

13:54

that Muslim support in Congress if I was going  to identify one person that like unconditionally  

14:00

this entire time since she was elected has done  everything for Palestine and for the Palestinian   people is rash Le that's it yeah um and it's sad  because we do have like we had the we had AOC like  

14:13

we had the trio we had all those like new young  people that we were so excited for we have like   we have people that they talk about Palestine but  then at the same time they don't do anything about  

14:23

it or like if you really dig deep they're not  actually aligned with the Palestinian cause um  

14:28

but she was one person um where she like when  Netanyahu came like and everyone was standing  

14:34

for him she was the one sitting you know like  thinking about people who are actually standing up   and doing something regardless of their identity  thankfully she is Palestinian right like so we  

14:43

have that identification in her but it doesn't  need to be that way and I think we're kind of   starting to play we're starting to recognize that  that's not the case where like if they're Muslim  

14:52

we have to vote for them if they're passing you  have to vote for them um but it's like it's been   a long journey cuz especially in Chicago if you  looked at that like politicians like we would  

15:00

vote for we' vote for them because like they're a  person of color or they're a minority group and we   just think that's going to make things better  because Chicago is such a diverse City and it  

15:08

ends up not being the case yeah I think there  there has been especially this past election   cycle across the Muslim Community there has been  a reckoning in terms of identity politics and how  

15:20

far identity politics can really go and what does  it really mean to be like you know a candidate who   is committed to Justice and uh fighting specially  interests that don't have people at heart that  

15:33

there has been a reckoning of that undoubtedly I  think there has been progress although it's very  

15:39

small very small and almost even superficial um  but there has been progress in terms of you know  

15:46

the overarching narrative on Palestine inside  the Hol of power however it's not really fair  

15:53

to say that has resulted in much policy change  um speaking to you know what's this point so I do  

16:00

agree uh that you know there has to be a different  strategy and I think that strategy is really going  

16:06

to come from punishing elected officials more  so than it is going to be in putting them in um   and and and I think like what this election has  really demonstrated is it is possible to punish a  

16:18

national you know incumbent uh political candidate  who otherwise may have won it really like  

16:28

objectively the de Democrats perform terribly and  it's less that Trump won more so than that Harris  

16:34

lost um but if they handled RZA differently there  will always be that question would the Democrats  

16:42

may have won because so many of the issues that  the Democrats were voted out for were connected to  

16:47

vza yeah I mean I think I think that's interesting  I I've got another uh question really about um  

Public figures

16:54

like public figures uh Medi Hassan comes to mind  and I don't want to personalize his te much but  

16:59

you know Med has obviously came out in favor of  voting for Harris um and he on other on Gaza he  

17:06

has been actually very good and he's been very  effective and he's been a very good good debater   and and he he he raises you know issues that  others don't talk about but on this one issue he  

17:18

probably you know he certainly was wrong right and  he certainly was was uh uh on a side which which  

17:25

was which was horrid yeah I mean that can even  be seen with his position changing as election  

17:31

day got closer and you know his his language  changed initially in the beginning he was fully  

17:37

behind Biden even when there were top ranking  Democrats who were coming out against Biden and   saying there needs to be an open election or an  Open Primary or they were even suggesting names  

17:46

of who could replace Biden um and then when he  you know comes out and changes in towards I would  

17:53

say middle of the time of Biden's candidacy after  the first debate he fully goes out against Biden  

17:59

says you know he needs to be changed and then you  know moving a little further when the Harris uh  

18:05

candidacy is confirmed uh he's full Harris even  when there are doubters within the Democratic  

18:10

party uh and then towards the end towards the  last couple of weeks especially after you know  

18:16

Bill Clinton and after Richie Torres goes to  Dearborne again it's like Democrats campaign   so that they can lose um after those he literally  says you guys deserve to lose like he he said like  

18:27

if you lose Michigan you deserve it you deserve  the moral defeat and it's almost like you again  

18:33

I'm not trying to personalize it but it's almost  like a position of trying to have the cake and   eat it too and I understand it because there is  a dread of a trump presidency I do get it um but  

18:44

I do think that if you look at every single  Lobby every single you know interest group in  

18:50

United States history that was able to make any  sort of policy change they did it by punishing   candidates this is this is I mean objective fact  um and it's a matter really of believing whether  

19:02

the Muslim Community is capable of punishing  candidates or not and I think but this past   year has proved that they are under the correct  circumstances well also to pick up on like what  

19:12

you said about them trying to lose like I think we  couldn't like my family and I were sitting after  

19:17

the election and we were trying to identify like  campaign goals from either party where like they   didn't have actual like concrete campaign goals  like the Democratic party was like running off of  

19:28

like a meme like it was just like trying to appeal  to young voters like trying to be trendy get the   celebrities involved get Beyonce involved get  tayor Swift involved five million to Oprah yeah  

19:38

like just bringing all these like people that are  like the face and the the American Youth are going  

19:43

to be stupid enough to fall forward and vote for  it and I think they were banking on that way too   much because that's not what happened but like  they when everyone when the Allies talk about  

19:54

how they were like oh well now we don't have the  right to choose now our education system screwed   we have all these problems that are going to come  up but she never at any point said she was going  

20:04

to do anything about those things there was never  actually a concrete campaign goal about it there   was never a strategy there was never anything  about it um and then on the other hand we found  

20:14

out that they're playing completely opposite  ads in Michigan versus Pennsylvania like in  

20:19

Michigan the ads are talking about a ceasefire in  Pennsylvania the ads are talking about standing up   for Israel's right to defend itself from the  Democratic party so when you see those like  

20:28

there was no strategy at all to their campaigning  and I think it should kind of show like Americans  

20:35

like they thought we were dumb enough to fall  for that and I think that's a big thing we   need to realize where maybe voting isn't really  where where our power is but like how most you  

20:45

were saying like getting into the like punishing  candidates you know going into it in that kind  

20:50

of light I think has a bigger effect because they  shouldn't be able to treat us like we're dumb and   do those types of things and get away with it do  you guys feel that like in the UK there is this  

Hijrah

21:00

sort of impression amongst young people that  it's it's an it's a almost an an atmosphere of   Doom and Gloom you know um I mean partly because  UK is a pretty uh wet and cold place most of the  

21:11

year but a lot of young people I speak to they  they tend to say uh We've we've given up on the  

21:17

politics and we just want to leave now and and  you know uh there is this sort of flight away  

21:23

to Muslim countries okay fine it's a romanticized  version of what the Muslim world looks like but  

21:29

there is a lot of that there I mean is is there  an equivalent in the US amongst uh amongst young  

21:34

Muslims there is there's a bit of that I don't  know if I would say that there's a lot of it but   there is a bit of it I definitely have run into  it um and maybe in Chicago it's more I mean this  

21:45

is my New York propaganda moment if you live in  New York I don't know why you'd want to leave but   that's how I feel about Chicago so understandably  um I will say uh there is a bit of it I do think  

21:59

there is a different dimension in the United  States uh which is American exceptionalism that's   something that Muslims aren't you know necessarily  safe from and I think it has its pros and cons I  

22:09

think it has manifested itself in the last 20  years more in you know the negative um but I do  

22:15

think actually this is an interesting thought that  a big reason why the abandon Harris movement uh  

22:23

it wasn't just the campaign obviously there was  the campaign but there were others as well who   were you know just morally affected by it uh even  if they weren't you know officially part of the  

22:33

campaign or anything I think one of the reasons  why the movement was so successful in specifically  

22:39

bringing in number one non-politically activated  Muslims in terms of Voters uh and then also  

22:48

bringing in uh leftists or left leaning I should  say progressive might be the more accurate term  

22:54

Progressive some Progressive Democratic voters  uh and even right-wing voters is because they  

23:03

appealed to a bit of the American exceptionalism  on the idea of America's culpability and uh its uh  

23:12

complicity in the genocide that's happening in Lea  I think that is an important tool I think that's  

23:18

an important tool when we're talking about you  know daa and the United States when we're talking   about spreading a positive message and showing  and giving an alternative to to America I do think  

23:29

that there is you know a level of it that needs to  speak to what the people distinguish themselves by  

23:38

I do think that that is important so I think it  does like back to your question it does exist a  

23:44

bit but I do think that American exceptionalism  plays a very big role in how what some Americans  

23:49

identify themselves yeah um and it really varies  across ethnicity and across um you know even I  

23:57

would say location United States in urban places  you'll see that actually plays less the American   exception wasm plays less uh not necessarily  generally speaking but you can see that it'll  

24:07

play a lesser role in terms of identity more so  than you know places like the suburbs and rural  

24:12

areas I think it also like I don't think we have a  lot of Chicago like you said with New York people  

24:19

don't necessarily want to leave and be like oh I  just want to move to a Muslim country and never   come back I don't think we have a lot of that I  think we had to have a mix of like hopelessness  

24:29

um but also hopelessness activated into like rage  like I think we do have a lot of people that are   using it to be like okay like what are we going  to like campaign against next what are we going to  

24:37

protest against next like where are we going like  what are we doing so there's a lot of like direct   actions there's a lot of like disruptions things  like that and I think people are channeling that  

24:46

helplessness into that because it's giving people  that power um but I do think that's a Band-Aid and  

24:52

I think we've kind of held that Band-Aid on for  like the past year and I don't know what's to come   next um if we don't see any change cuz at first we  started with just like the protests and those were  

25:02

good and then they're like okay now we're going  to do direct like targeted protests but now I I   don't know where to go from here and how that's  going to transform everything yeah there's also  

25:10

a lot of uncertainty about the future like I have  never been in so many conversations about what  

25:15

the schooling look like for our next Generation  that were things they you guys are talking about   schooling for the Next Generation wow yeah yeah I  have never been insult conversations about it from  

25:25

like literally all of my friend groups yeah yeah  like what what you mean you so I hear that there's  

25:32

a flight especially amongst you know family young  families there's a move from say New York and some  

25:39

of these more socially liberal centers to places  like Texas or Florida where is that how how common  

25:47

is that yeah it's less it's less to the States  because they are conservative and more so from  

25:53

a city to a suburb yeah so the move you'll see a  lot that happening is from New York for example  

26:00

to Pennsylvania specifically places like Allentown  East Devon these are Suburban areas um or you'll  

26:06

see it to Dallas more so than Houston Houston  is a massive City huge um and it's very much an  

26:12

urban uh you know Hub but most of the Muslims who  are moving from New York to Texas aren't moving  

26:19

to Houston they're moving to Dallas where the  suburbs are um as opposed to Houston or Austin   so it's less so from you know a socially liberal  state to a conservative State more so than it is  

26:30

from cities which tend to be more Democrat more  socially liberal uh to suburbs which tend to be  

26:40

even if they aren't socially conservative you  have the space to just kind of be your own and  

26:47

isolate which tends to be the the trend really if  you look at a lot of these places yeah I think for  

26:53

us it's like people are thinking about safety  I think Chicago is completely different in that   sense where it's a pretty not I don't want to  say dangerous because I've never felt in danger  

27:01

living there but um I know there's a lot of like  crime that's like starting in the city and slowly  

27:07

moving its way like South um into like the bridge  view area which is like little Palestine for us  

27:13

so people are starting to move out of like those  areas and move even further south which are also  

27:18

like coincidentally very conservative areas um but  I think people aren't necessarily moving if you  

27:24

ask like a year ago like before everything started  happening in Gaza I think people were moving for  

27:30

those reasons like people were more focused on  those things where it's like oh more conservative   schools more conservative values things like that  I think now I don't want to say people don't care  

27:38

but people's minds aren't fully focused on that  anymore like they're focused on the greater the   bigger picture of what's Happening overseas people  are more so moving for like that Suburban feel can  

American Muslims progressive?

27:47

I I mean again I don't know how to phrase this  question in a in a sort of in a sensitive way  

27:52

but you know that British Muslims we tend to have  very stereotypical views of American Muslim yes  

28:00

you all think that there are no real Muslims in  the US okay I said it for you so like is is you  

28:06

know how how because when I meet you guys when  I speak to you you know like today and when I   meet other brothers and sisters it's you know I  you guys think and feel the same as we do about  

28:17

on political and social issues but you know there  is this impression that uh whereas you know we we  

28:24

we've embraced the more I don't know if it's even  the right phrase but more conservative sort of uh  

28:30

way of of doing things uh young Muslims in America  in particular are quite Progressive I mean is that  

28:37

is that just a a stereotype and and we need to  move on yeah they uh go ahead actually I think you  

28:45

might have a better in it's a little bit of both  like I think there are some like there are more  

28:50

Progressive regions like I think like the cities  do have that more Progressive like I want say   progressive Isam I don't know what else to call it  um but I think that also it varies culturally too  

29:01

so one like location two culture like where your  family's from like some people have those like  

29:08

stronger roots to their Islam um but I think also  we're starting to see now more not second gen but  

29:14

third gen um Palestinian not Palestinian oh my  gosh Muslims in general in the US so when it was  

29:20

first gen versus second like things started to get  a little more Progressive now we're seeing third   where like those I don't want to say cultural  culturally Islamic roots are kind of getting lost  

29:31

but more of that americanism is kind of coming  in and that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad   thing but I think that's why it can kind of look  like it's more Progressive because now it's not  

29:41

you're not a like Palestinian Muslim or like a  Pakistani Muslim you're like an American Muslim  

29:47

those roots are kind of lost so like the values  and the approaches to Islam kind of change for the   person yeah I think the big access is how you kind  of identify in accordance or I guess in proximity  

30:00

to America um and being you know American so  to speak right uh and I do think that you know  

30:07

there is a pendulum shift that's happening I do  think that the second generation especially the  

30:12

one that grew up you know they started or they  maybe had their formative years during the war on  

30:18

terror The Early times of the war on terror but  they do have you know experience before it like  

30:25

their childhood was before it and so they kind of  good old days that they kind of go back to I do  

30:31

think that that generation tends in my experience  this is fully anecdotal but tends to shift more  

30:38

towards you know Progressive values if not like at  a value acceptance level uh at a value expression  

30:46

level at a value tolerance level I I have seen  that that I I do believe to be the case I do think  

30:52

with the third generation vda has really changed  I think the third generation was on track to put  

30:58

the pendulum even more towards you know what you  would consider Progressive values um that are  

31:05

contradictory to Islam uh but then RZA really  brought everything back at a mass scale um and  

31:11

people who I know who weren't praying had started  to pray all over again uh people I know who you  

31:17

know they were doing they were always politically  active and they were like interested and you know   they'd read and stuff um they started to ask  why don't we have politics that reflect our G  

31:28

even though we learn that our de has a level of  politics in it so I do think that Gaza has really  

31:33

changed everything and I will I will see there is  I I had a friend from the UK who came to the US  

31:39

and uh he got to travel around all over the US he  came to New York he went to California Texas Ohio  

31:45

he went everywhere and he said you know I was most  surprised and shook that there are a Muslim um and  

31:52

I was telling him you know I spent a good amount  of time with because it was him and a couple of   other brothers from the UK I said yeah you know  I I spent a good amount of time with you guys and  

32:00

I was uh surprised that there are also Muslims in  the UK you and not you know sectarian uh internet  

32:09

heads I would say or Twitter heads yeah that's  right I think a lot of it is what we perceive and  

32:14

see on social media and that's that's not normally  a good mirror well let's wrap this up I think this  

32:19

has been fascinating and I I've got a good picture  of of you know where where you guys are and it' be   good to come back to you once Donald Trump does  uh embed himself in as a as the president to see  

32:29

how how he does um but uh I actually Sami humy I  think is still there I mean was Sami in Chicago  

32:37

the other day I I can't remember been traveling oh  he was in Chicago for American WIS for Palestine  

32:42

conference this past weekend so how how to be  it was good it was nice to have a lot of um  

32:49

just like palis and Muslim youth in one place  um I think although the topics of conversation  

32:56

are kind of the same they're is like that sense of  community I think that's what a lot of people need   and I think that's why protests people are still  pulling up to those like we're going to protest  

33:04

maybe we're not seeing a difference but being  around people is what's keeping us strong kind   of keeping us hopeful um so that was nice to have  everybody together a sense of solidarity yeah back  

Sami Hamdi

33:14

back to Samy okay like I know Sami is this amazing  political analyst and and the rest of it but like  

33:20

what is his appeal in America why is he spending  so much time in America I I don't get it bab I  

33:25

think he likes America more than the American  like himot take really hot take he doesn't like  

33:33

New York I will say that much that much is very  clear every time he comes to New York he brings  

33:38

bad bad weather with him every time right and say  I know a lot of like young organizers at least in  

33:45

Chicago love hearing him speak um and it's like  that inspiring like feel that we don't really  

33:50

get from a lot of speakers not not to diss any  speakers in the US they're all great but I think   it's also that sense of like it's a speaker we  never really hear from like we hear from him on  

33:59

online but we never get to see him in person and  seeing him in person kind of resp Sparks that that   drive in us so I accent must must help I I I won't  give too much credit to the English accent but I  

34:11

will say one of the things that he does you know  very well M and A lot of people do very well um is  

34:18

that they are really centering Dean on you know  a political Compass they're centering you know  

34:25

the you know the political compass within being  and what Sammy does is he does that very loudly  

34:31

uh and so you know that that's a big part of his  appeal like I know you know a lot of people who  

34:36

have listened to him they'll come back and say oh  you know uh what he said really stuck with me he  

34:43

says it in such a way that's very passionate um  and he kind of he makes you feel it right like   he makes you feel the omus pain he makes you feel  like the way forward um and so that that sticks  

34:52

with people yeah great well thank you so much guys  for uh for your uh um conversation today and uh as  

35:02

I said it would be great to to touch base with you  and that's a very American term but touch Bas with   you sometime soon and and talk about uh things  going forward and I think the idea behind these  

35:12

conversations really just to get a feel for how  young people respond to different events I mean  

35:18

I think it's probably worth doing something quite  similar on Syria in fact it'll be wonderful musab   because I know musab is is organized in many of  these it'd be wonderful to get even young people  

35:27

from sirri here uh to have a conversation maybe  on our next couple of chats uh but look jaak thank  

35:34

you so much jaak for your time today and uh uh I  hope to to speak to you guys soon salam alaikum s

35:42

good please remember to subscribe  to our social media and YouTube  

35:49

channels and head over to our website Thinkin  muslim.com to sign up to my Weekly Newsletter

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Ep 192. - 2024: Gaza’s Defiance and the Miserable Muslim Rulers with Sami Hamdi - Part 1

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Ep 190. - Jalal's Take: “Assad or We Burn the Country”: Syria’s Struggle For Liberation