Ep 180. - Will Trump Be Bad For Muslims? with Sami Hamdi
What does Trump mean for the wider world, how do we position Trump’s America First philosophy in the context of US Unipolarity. Are we seeing the unravelling of the US in the world? To help us understand Trumps America I am happy to have back on the show Sami Hamdi. Sami is an analysts and campaigner and we are forever indebted to his energy.
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Transcript - This is an automated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
0:00
it's abundantly clear that Gaza was one of the main reasons why Kamal Iris lost Gaza has been phenomenal in that it mobilized the community Gaza could decide the Canada elections could
0:10
decide the Australia elections we might have actually been able to bring about a shift we managed to at least you managed to change the public discourse there's a kid 12 13 years old
0:21
no left arm no left leg he walks across the M banking on on one arm and and one leg that kid
0:27
didn't deserve he didn't deserve to have his legs blow up Al what I saw him I saw my kid Sal I saw
0:34
my kid Netanyahu may be emboldened by a new Trump Administration I need the Iranians to
0:41
get off my back so I can focus on my Raves and my concerts no one should ever forget who's at the center of the story ones who are still being bummed today they're still being
0:50
slaughtered today they're still being stared today because some random group of people from
0:55
the West believe this to be some sort of home of theirs I'm here because you touched the n
1:03
Donald Trump despite all the polling won what looks like a decisive victory over Kamala Harris
1:09
he took votes away from the Democrats in almost every demographic women ethnic minorities Muslims
1:15
black Americans despite a felony charge and a raft of outstanding cases this was a spectacular
1:22
return for a politician who the pundit said would never return but what does Donald Trump
1:29
mean for the wide the world how do we position trance America First philosophy in the context
1:34
of us unipolarity are we seeing the unraveling of the United States in the world when there are
1:42
questions about the elections did Muslims play the kind of role we were all discussing prior
1:47
to the election and has Gaza been overlooked as a cause now to help us understand Trump's America
1:55
and the place and position of us Muslims I'm happy to have back on the show some HDI Samy is a consument analyst and a campaigner and we are forever indebted to his energy now
2:07
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2:39
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2:45
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2:52
mug the description link is in the show notes below samam to learn welcome to the thinking
3:00
mus for having me well it's wonderful to have you with us and I know uh you're probably still
3:06
suffering from jet lag because you've been to the United States alhamdulillah you've been on a tour in fact when we last met and spoke uh I think you were just about packing your bags and you were off
3:16
on a on a speaker tour uh in Tu the states and I I remember you saying that I these are my words
3:23
but you were going to agitate uh against or for a Harris loss um but also there was a discussion
3:30
about the consequence of a Harris loss like how we can as a mus as a Muslim Community how we
3:37
could leverage that loss now certainly Harris lost and and as I said in my introduction she lost in
3:43
a very severe way uh but what about that second uh objective like how much did Gaza play a role
How much did Gaza play in Kamala’s loss?
3:52
in her loss for having me thank you for for having me back here and it's good to be home I think that
3:59
when you have Bernie Sanders of the Democrats coming out immediately after Kamal Harris loses and he States his assessment of why the Democrats lost and he States Gaza specifically as one of the
4:10
main reasons why they lost I think when you have Rana from California coming out and speaking to
4:15
CNN the media and suggesting that if they had taken a different position on Gaza the results
4:21
might have been different I think that when you have AOC speaking to her voters asking them why
4:26
some of them voted for Trump and for her and they told her it's because of of the economy and Gaza I think when you have the hill putting out headlines saying Muslims punish Harris over
4:36
Gaza I think when you have the New York Times coming out and saying that it was the economy and also Gaza I think when you have CNN with its pundits discussing to what extent Gaza played a
4:47
role in terms of pushing people to sit out this vote remember Kamala lost 10 million votes on
4:53
what Joe Biden got in 2020 I think that it's clear that as far as these mainstream pundits concern I
5:00
think when you have John fetman a known Zionist of the Democrat Party tweeting as soon as Kamala
5:06
Harris lost saying oh you punished her because of Gaza now reap what you so I think that certainly
5:12
from their perspective from Sanders Kana a from fet and CNN the Hill New York Times and all these
5:19
others it's abundantly clear that Gaza was one of the main reasons why Kamal Iris lost I think
5:24
also when you look at the results in those swing states that were going to decide the difference in the elections you look at for example in Michigan the difference between Kamal Harris
5:33
and Trump 80,000 votes there are almost 250,000 Muslims in Michigan you look at Pennsylvania the
5:39
difference was 139,000 votes and you have 149,000 Muslim population in Pennsylvania in Wisconsin it
5:47
was a 30,000 vote difference between Trump and Kamala Harris there are more than 70,000 Muslims
5:52
in Wisconsin itself and you can keep going these swing States in Georgia 116,000 difference 140,000
6:00
Muslims in Georgia itself at least the ones that we know and that are registered so the suggestion when you look at these fine margins in the swing States certainly it suggests that
6:11
it was very tight the elections despite the difference in the popular vote suggesting
6:16
any shift in policy May well have flipped the states the other way and this isn't just my
6:21
analysis talking here 34 different polls including those from NBC including those from ugv including
6:29
those from nor including those from the main channels in the US itself 34 polls including
6:35
in October the month before the election all indicated that if Harris altered her position
6:41
on Gaza she would get a 5% boost in those swing States if you calculate 5% of those swing States
6:49
they Grant her three or four of those swing States suggesting the result might well have been very
6:54
different from the landslide that we saw Trump get in other words it's not that Gaza was the
7:00
main issue of the election it's that Gaza swung the election if the economy was the main pillar of
7:06
the election if the issue of immigration was one of the main pillars of the election they resulted in a stalemate between Kamala Harris and between Donald Trump and Gaza it is what swung it the
7:17
other way Gaza is what decided it with these very fine margins that are each of the Swing States
7:24
barring two of them each of those swing States the margin of difference is 2% or less l in other
7:30
words when we talk about the impact of Gaza or indeed the impact of the Muslim vote and here when
7:35
I talk about the Muslim vote I don't just mean the Muslims I mean non-muslims also moved by the
7:41
genocide that was taking place and perpetrated by Biden and Harris then it's abundantly clear that
7:47
Gaza played a decisive influence over the election that is being acknowledged by the Democrats that
7:54
is part of the reflection that is taking place and there are only two factions now in my opinion
8:00
that are arguing that Gaza did not have a role to play the firstar Zionist who are very keen
8:05
to stress as they did when they campaigned against Jamal Bowman when they toppled him in his district
8:10
if you notice in the campaign against Jamal Bowman they didn't mention Israel they didn't talk about support for Israel why because they knew that if they talked about Israel it would be an election
8:21
loser amongst the constituents in Jamal Bowman's District so they focused on economy they focused
8:26
on housing they focused on the sewers they focused on the domestic infrastructure in the constituency
8:31
and how Jamal Bowman had not delivered there are two groups that are trying to argue today that Gaza did not have an impact despite the data overwhelmingly showing that it did the one are
8:42
the zionists and two in my opinion and I don't mean this to deride them Pro haris Muslims who
8:47
are trying to assert that the decision to punish the Democrats was a wrong one but I think when you look overall you see that it had the impact that everybody thought it would have so when we
8:57
talk about Pro Harris uh Muslims um I mean let's be quite quite clear about this for example um
9:04
Medi Hassan you know who has gone on record to say that um he was supporting uh Harris and you know
9:11
we've had discussions with I've had discussions with him uh Medi Hassan made it very clear that this was not the Gaza vote I mean how would you respond to to that very unequivocal message that
9:23
uh Gaza had no part to play in this I think one of the things that is worth noting is that in the
9:28
elections if you look look at the votes that Trump got in 2020 Trump got 74 million votes yes in this
9:33
election 2024 he got 75 million votes he got less than a million addition meaning that Trump did not
9:39
win because he suddenly became popular Trump won because the 80 million votes that Biden got in
9:45
20120 only 71 million of those votes turned out for Kamala Harris there are 10 million who chose
9:51
to stay at home let's suppose that 1 million of those stayed at home because of Gaza again that
9:57
also decides the difference but more important than that is before we include the swing states
10:02
in the elections Harris and Trump are very close to each other in the Electoral College before we
10:08
get to those six swing States when you calculate the number of those swing States they are neck and
10:13
neck until you consider the marginal votes until you consider those marginal issues which areza or
10:20
the like once you get to a stage where you have the stalemate there is an issue that decides which way it swings we saw in deborn Michigan that they voted against Harris but for Rashida so they
10:31
didn't abandon the Democrats they abandoned Harris they made their point clear that we're punishing on the presidential ticket we punishing you for what you did for G but rewarding Rashida for the
10:42
stance that she took in favor of and in favor of the Palestinians this was also the same situation
10:47
that happened in North Carolina it is the same that happened in Pennsylvania we saw that down the ballot we saw Democrats did better than they did at the presidency and that voter showed up for
10:58
democrat congress people like AOC and these others in a way that they did not show up for Kamala
11:03
Harris showing that there was an intention to punish the presidency but reward those who stood with Gaza but the key Point here is this when you look at how tight the margin is in those swing
11:13
state take Wisconsin for example 30,000 difference between Trump and between Kamala Harris in an area
11:18
with 70,000 Muslims what's going to swing it is not the economy economy got it to a tight election
11:25
immigration got it to a tight election but what are the few thousand votes that are going to get you over the line it was Gaza without Gazza Harris has a chance of actually winning without
11:36
Gaza Harris has a chance of keeping those swing states that she lost and this is what the 34 poll
11:43
suggested that 5% increase if she had changed her position of Gaza all of the polls are agreed that
11:49
69% of Americans were in favor of an immediate ceasefire and if we compound that and we add
11:54
to that Americans are not blind they saw how after the hurricane that ravaged Florida Biden
12:01
gave a pitiful amount of money for the rescue in Florida but 8 billion doll on the same day
12:07
to Israel Americans saw how you have homelessness in California and rampant unemployment but Biden
12:15
found $4 billion to give to the Israelis to commit genocide instead of dealing with the situation in
12:21
California Americans were noticing that the Israel first policy of the Democrats was resulting in an
12:28
economic decline in the US itself and this is why I argue that it's not the fact that
12:33
the votes just that they punished the Democrats because if they supported Gazza many Americans un
12:38
unwittingly punish the Democrats because of Gazza because a lot of the economic woes that they were
12:44
complaining from the funds were available to deal with them but Biden gave them to Israel
12:49
instead so even if they punish the Democrats because of the economy not intending to punish
12:55
them because of a lot of those economic Wars are because of bid's prioritizing of foreign policy
13:01
Biden's Biden's prioritizing of genocide Biden's prioritizing of Israel that led to this disconnect
13:09
between the Democrats and the American people the American people who wanted America first but the
13:14
Democrat Party that insisted on Israel first an American population that wanted America first but
13:20
a Democrat policy that put donor first and donors who wanted the Israeli genocide to continue so I
13:25
think when you put all these Dynamics together it's clear that the Gazza may not have been the
13:30
main issue but it was the issue that swung the election and that's why again I repeat that's
13:36
why Bernie Sanders Rana AOC John fetman CNN the Hill New York Times in every single one of their
13:43
analyses on the elections Gaza is mentioned alongside the economy alongside immigration
13:49
alongside the issues of the American people and when you look at how Trump didn't add to his vote
13:54
Trump literally had the same vote that he got in 2020 it's the Democrats who lost 10 Mill votes
13:59
the question should be asked what made those 10 million people stay at home it was their inability
14:05
to differentiate between Harris and between Donald Trump on any issue including Gaza and
14:12
that's why even Trump's own assessment and this is very important here why did Trump go to Michigan
14:19
why did he make that appeal to Dearborn why did he go there and say I'm willing to make peace
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and why in his victory speech did he say that we built the broadest coal I that includes Hispanics
14:31
African-Americans and Arab and Muslim Americans why did he say this in his victory speech once
14:37
he announced his victory the reason he said it is because according to his own data his own
14:43
Republican polls showed that an undecided voter was six times more likely to vote for a candidate
14:50
in favor of Peace in Gaza than one supporting the genocide the Republicans own data of the
14:58
electorate of those 10 million who chose to sat at home the Republicans own data showed that if they
15:04
came out and suggested peace in Gaza they would pick up undecided voters if they came out and
15:11
said they would stop the genocide they would pick up undecided voters and this is why I say do not
15:17
take it from Sami do not take it from M Hassan or for Muhammad Jalal there is a quranic maxim that
15:25
somebody from the from her side testified when yfam when they ripped his shirt from behind it was
15:32
somebody from her side that testified that Yousef had been wronged don't judge it based on Sami look
15:37
what Bernie says look what Rana says look what AOC is saying look what CNN is saying look what
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the hill is saying look what all of these other pundits are saying look what John fetman is saying
15:48
look what Trump is saying look what the Republican campaign was doing in Dearborn Michigan when he
15:55
went to gather those votes and you'll find that it's abundantly clear that according to them Gaza
16:00
was a key issue and in many cases it was the issue that swung the election in a way that none of us
16:06
could have imagine maybe we thought Trump would pick up two three states but to pick up all of those States on those very fine margins the Gaza can be the only explanation for it I mean that
16:16
sounds very convincing but um there is something that still perplexes me of course the abandoned Harris campaign came out in support of the green party you know I I interviewed Joe Stein and but
16:26
wear and um there there seemed to be a momentum for the green party at least U from what we picked
16:32
up on social media and from some Poland but when it came to it the green party only uh received
16:39
0.5% of the popular vote um so their vot share didn't really shift I mean they were aspiring
16:44
to that 5% figure and we talked about it in the last uh in the last podcast um so if the the main
16:52
abandoned Harris campaign was supporting the green party yet the green party did so badly uh are we
The Muslim community’s role in Kamala’s loss
17:00
saying then that Muslims collectively came to the conclusion that either they would stay at home or
17:06
they would vote for Trump despite what the leaders or one big leadership in the Muslim Community was
17:12
saying I think there are a few Dynamics here to consider yeah one of the things that I noticed when I was in the US was I would often get posed the question that if we're going to punish Harris
17:23
Why Don't We Just vote for Trump right why don't we make sure that she loses by going to vote for
17:29
trump pragmatically it us pragmatically it was blunt why and I heard it especially in North
17:35
Carolina and in Michigan in North I remember somebody actually stood up at the end of one of the talks up and said Sami you should be telling everybody to go and vote Trump and I said first
17:44
of all it's not for me to tell anybody how to vote even when I was here last time I simply laid out where the Democrat concerns were and people inferred from it whatever they wanted to infer
17:51
but one of the reasons that he made was we want to make sure that Harris loses I think that as the
17:58
momentum for the green party continued I think two things happened that changed the course the first is the care poll that came out that suggested that half of the community was still willing to
18:07
go and vote for Harris you remember the poll it said 41% of the community were still willing to vote for Harris and I remember on that day there were many people intending to vote green party
18:15
who said Samy I am worried about the Betrayal from my own community that will vote Harris I'm
18:21
going to vote Trump to make sure that these who were planning to vote Harris do not swing it for
18:27
Harris when she could be on the verge of defeat I'm switching my vote to Donald Trump and indeed we saw the imams in Michigan they came out many of them to go and endorse Donald Trump and they
18:37
came out but the other reason that they endorsed Donald Trump and the other issue I think that the green party hampered their own momentum in the final week was if you remember the LGBT and the
18:48
trans issues ended up coming up an issue that is considered very sensitive amongst the Muslim
18:54
population that made many in the community feel we are falling back into to the Trap of the Democrat
19:00
Party where we vote for our immediate safety but compromise the future of our children in the words
19:05
of one person that I was speaking to I won't say which state he was in he said my daughter I'm
19:10
worried that my son will go to school s knowing he's a boy and come home and say my school are telling me I'm a girl and I think that that sort of last week Fiasco just before the voting took
19:21
place I think many Muslims ended up saying you know what let me just focus on Resa let me go for Trump or stay at home and I think many of them did stay at home the idea being I can't
19:30
vote not I can't vote for Trump morally speaking I can't vote for Harris she committed genocide and
19:35
the green party on these moral issues I can't vote for them either even if I appreciate the Strategic
19:40
necessity for it I'm going to sit out in these elections like the 10 million who set out of of
19:46
Americans who chose to vote neither for Harris nor to vote for Donald Trump itself but I think also
19:51
that the point that is worth noting is at the end of the day I think the very fact that there was a discussion that dominated the community about whether to stay at home or to go third party
20:02
certainly was a very effective Shield against those who are advocating to go vote for Harris
20:08
as well and what you notice in the care poll is although the Green Party Support tended to stay the same those who were Pro Harris and Trump that Harris support ended up declining a bit and the
20:17
Trump support started going up of course polling in the community remains very difficult but I do think those two issues I think were the decisive factor in terms of affecting the green party vote
20:28
but also affecting the election overall the idea of it's so close and I'm scared Harris will win
20:34
and therefore genocide will become normalized so let me vote Trump at least in the swing states to
20:39
make sure that Harris loses and the second I think the LGBT issue and the transgender issue popped up
20:45
once more in the days just before the elections and I think for many Muslims and I heard it across America where it said if that issue tends to come up again and raise its head I think it's
20:55
better that I stay home and I think they stayed home and I remember the question I was asked towards in in the final week was if I stay at home is that would that also be punishing Kamal Harris
21:06
and when you look at the 10 million who stayed at home it's clear those who stayed at home Pro to be a decisive factor in deciding the election between Harris and Trump when we think about uh the future
The Green Party not a vehicle?
21:17
and how Muslims will navigate future elections I mean it seems to me that the green party practically is just not a vehicle I mean if they get .5% of the vote maybe next sum and they get
21:27
a 1% of vote % they're not going to affect change at best they will be a recipient or or a you know
21:35
a place where you place your votes if you really are inclined to vote but of course green parties
21:40
socially are very very highly problematic right and so are we not saying then at a federal level
21:46
then the Muslims really just have two choices and they've got to make either amends with the
21:52
Democrats or change Democratic policy but they've got to find a way in which they can carve out
21:58
pro- Muslim policy within the Republicans I mean it seems that they're between a rock and a hard place still I mean how would you see the future of Muslim voting behavior I think
22:07
it's a bit too early to talk about what are the necessary Pathways that Muslims can take with regards to the system or the politics or the like and I think that the premise of the
22:15
question suggests that there might be salvation in the system itself with regards to Muslims and the way they live their lives and their values and the ideologies and I don't necessarily look
22:23
at systems as some things that are permanent I rather look at what influences systems to change
22:28
and I think what Gaz demonstrated so emphatically is the power of Da in bringing about political
22:34
change the point when I mentioned earlier when I said I don't consider the Muslim vote to be just those Muslims who voted but also the non-muslims who were influenced by the images of the genocide
22:44
taking place and therefore made the conscious choice to abandon the Democrats and stay at home
22:50
which led to the paving of the way for Trump to win orbe that's not what they wanted to do
22:55
but they wanted to stay at home because they felt they could not vote for a genocider I believe that power of daa to open up new avenues by which you can manifest power I think that is what I am more
The power of Dawah
23:06
interested in the idea that you could convince ordinary Americans who are accustomed to voting
23:12
for Democrats to abandon the Democrats because of a single issue in which they abandon genocide and
23:19
knowing they are abandoning the Democrats and that they will pay a price for abandoning the Democrats
23:24
and now coming up against Donald Trump and the Damage he could potentially do to America and
23:29
Beyond I think that da that ability to move hearts that ability to shake society that ability to
23:36
shift public opinion to see tan hessi Cod come out and say I don't blame people who abandoned Kamala
23:43
Harris because she did not speak to the brothers and she did not address the issues that they
23:48
were concerned with and she did not Pitch to the demographics that she was supposed to win whether
23:53
it's Muslims or African-Americans or the like I think the story here is less about do we go green
23:59
party or Democrats or Republicans and more that look what dawa can produce in terms of opportunity
24:05
look how dawa can shake America look how dawa is not just something that is confined to the
24:11
four walls of the Masjid but rather can influence wider Society to take decisions that are perhaps
24:18
outside of the normal traditional framework and you've seen it across social media John Hudson
24:24
the chief White House correspondent to the to the White House Washington Post when he said 6
24:31
months ago that new analysis captures that 1% of democrat voters are thinking of abandoning the
24:39
Democrats because of Biden's support for genocide which is a condition that donors are imposing on
24:45
him his exact tweet was new analysis captures the difference between what donors are asking of the
24:51
Democrats and the resulting 133% who might abandon Democrats because of what donors are demanding
24:57
it wasn't just % of Democrats who abandoned the Democrats it was more than them how John hunson
25:03
could predict that the da that was being embarked on by Muslims and the subsequent non-muslims who
25:10
heard that da who raised the issue of genocide and car to the American population they made 133% of
25:17
Democrats abandoned Democrats stay at home that meant that Trump didn't get many votes more but
25:24
Democrats lost 10 million Americans who are no longer in inspired by the Democrats and I think
25:30
it's safe to say genocide was a key reason why they were not inspired so let me rephrase the question what made those 10 million people stay at home it was economy certainly maybe it was
25:40
immigration maybe maybe Harrison inspired them yes but also the genocide and what carried the
25:46
message of genocide to these people that made them hesitate and tell them to stay home there was a video that went viral of one of the most popular Tik tokers coming out and saying guys
25:55
many of us stayed at home because we did not want to choose between a fascist and a genocide where
26:01
did they get the term genocid from it was da da in the full meaning of the word not in the sanitized
26:08
spiritual version that many of us Preach Today I was with Imam s and he won't mind me saying this
26:14
and he said Sami we don't do da no more we don't do da no more he was giving an example he said
26:21
once upon a time in Nation of Islam for example he said ignore the AA for a second if a Muslim was
26:26
caught sending a cigarette or alcohol to a fellow Muslim there were repercussions for it these days
26:32
we walk into a shop we don't even say to the brother sending the cigarette or the alcohol we simply go because dawa is not about changing his way dawa is personal to him his way to me mine he
26:42
said we don't do da anymore what is most potent in this election is not whether green party were
26:48
the alternative the only reason that we suggested green party even though I never said they should actively go to green party it was only what do the Democrats fear they fear losing an election
26:58
and a party getting 5% that would break their bet that party didn't get 5% for whatever reason but
27:04
the point is what created that scenario that the Democrats would be concerned that 10 million might
27:09
abandon it was dawa so when you're saying in terms of what is the opportunities moving forward is it
27:14
Republican is it Democrat is it green party my answer is a much more simple one now you see how
27:20
potent da is now you see how effective it is now you see how we can actually flip Hearts now you
27:26
see how we can change public opinion now you can see how we can decide elections now you can see how we can swing elections now you can see how we can make Trump come to Dearborn to do a campaign
27:35
now you can see how we can make Harris panic in the last week of the election she starts coming out trying to call for a ceasefire this is the daa this is prophetic daa because the prophet
27:44
Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam his da shook societies his da moved people's hearts and that's
27:51
I think the biggest takeaway in terms of this political da even though I don't want to attou political because da is political in and of itself but this idea of Da how do you entrench it how do
28:02
you raise now or move forward with organizations that have the certain belief that their voices can
28:08
resonate that they can convince American society to do what they believed it could not do before
28:14
if today they're convinced about genocide if today they stay home because of genocide if today they
28:19
punish Democrats because of genocide as one of other me reasons of other what other things can you change their minds on with the power of H and the power of truth and that's why I think
28:27
now in terms of moving forward to answer your question so it doesn't look like you said I run away from it I actually think that if social media was the means of communication that in
28:39
a disorganized fashion we were able to convey a message that changed the hearts and minds of a
28:45
significant number of the American society I won't say majority but a enough of a number to affect
28:52
the elections the question therefore should be how can I maintain these lines of communic how can I
28:59
entrench these lines of communication how can I reach new audiences Allah says debate with them
29:07
with that which is best what are the arguments that I can use moving forward because let me give you an example I was in California and I remember sitting with a group of of of of of I say I was
29:17
about to say youngsters but I realize I'm young as well just for white white hair pop out but I was sitting with a group I was sitting with a group of people and they were saying Sami look there are
29:28
lot of Republicans that are changing their minds on Israel but do not be deceived it
29:34
is not because they become Pro Palestine it is because they resent the idea of a foreign Nation
29:41
governing their policies and governing their rules and deciding what the US should do they
29:47
are resenting Israel because they are beginning to feel like the Israel first policy is something
29:53
that they don't necessarily approve of and that's why even in this I mean we're recording now while this whole mark Mar Rubio Fiasco is taking place the reason it's causing such a divide amongst
30:02
those magga supporters Trump supporters is is cuz magga supporters saying H going to Second that's not an American first candidate that's an Israel first candidate there's a debate that's taking
30:10
place in between them but here's the point here what made them realize that there was a foreign
30:16
influence greater than Russian interference in their own elections it was Da it was people
30:22
bringing to their attention that Biden could find $14 billion in October in Congress to try to give
30:27
to CC King Abdullah of Jordan to facilitate ethnic cleansing but says we have no money to deal with
30:32
the domestic issues like Medicare and the likes in the US itself and that's the point in terms of
30:38
debate with them with that which is best if the Muslim believes that they're a Mercy to Mankind and they believe that the H is H and the H is powerful and the H resonates with the F the the
30:48
natural Affinity towards Justice in the hearts then the question posed is not about whether we
30:53
we're republican or democrat or green party the question is how do we keep continuing to talk to American society now that we know that there is not the glass ceiling isn't actually there we
31:03
can actually reach higher and I think that's more poting so what is the mood in the Muslim Community I mean I I've received a great number of messages from people who had watched some of my shows and
31:14
uh they were pretty uh ecstatic I suppose a happy with the outcome that Harris lost and uh they were
31:22
you know uh very complimentary of of some of the guests that we had on our show but then I I feel
31:28
sometimes you know like everyone we're in a an echo chamber uh you met with Muslims uh across
Has Gaza brought about a shift?
31:34
the country the length and breath of the country uh Muslims of all Persuasions and and none um like
31:40
do you get the impression that post election they did feel a sense of political autonomy and they
31:47
realized that uh they no longer feel should be uh sort of marginalized as as voters in
31:54
America I think certainly there is an imp that suggests that Gaza might have actually made a
32:00
difference here and we might have actually been able to bring about a shift and now the onus is
32:06
on organizations in terms of how to adapt to that momentum by and that's why we've seen some set up
32:13
new packs whether it's you know care action C4 or some of these others you know set up we've seen
32:19
for example Unity lab which is expanding its operations in terms of lobbying and and that kind of thing we see in other organizations we seen amja for example the uh what would be
32:29
the equivalent of a union of imams put political and social activism as one of their main agendas in their meeting you know moving forward you know we've seen the rise of the likes of Imam
32:37
Tom fakini and these others we've seen sh Mas now talking politics quite in depth on his own
32:43
show and the like we've seen Muslims really start to engage in terms of what are the parameters of Muslim engagement in society and what is possible in terms of advocacy or the like what that looks
32:53
like what that looks like to be honest depends on the opportunities that show themselves in the coming weeks and the challenges that Donald Trump poses I think that when it came to the Democrats
33:02
and genocide there was a very unique challenge that was in front of everybody this Administration supported genocide if it wins a second term the world will say that you can win a second term
33:13
even if you commit genocide it was about trying to restore some sort of order in that genocide is truly a red line and I think that in right now it's true there is a narrative battle the zionists
33:23
are desperately trying to argue that Gaza did not play a role but I think the data is overwhelming
33:29
in suggesting that Gaza played a significant role yes economy immigration again contributed to making it a stalemate or or a tie but Gazza certainly swung it I think that now there is a
33:39
debate in terms of how we move forward and I think to be honest you're focusing a lot on America in
33:45
terms of the question itself but remember there are elections coming up in Canada there are elections coming up in Australia and I think that Trudeau in Canada and albeni in Australia will be
33:55
looking at what happened in the US and saying hang on a second the Democrats actually lost and Gaza
34:01
might have been a key issue and in Australia there is a Muslim vote now emerging Shi and these others
34:08
and there is the Muslim vote matters that also emerges and they're already mapping out candidates because their version of Dearborn in bankstown in bankstown Sydney could also play a major role
34:18
you have constituencies like Watson with 25% Muslim population you have many other areas 15
34:24
constituencies where Muslims could decide it and remember in Australia the government doesn't have a majority of 117 seats like the UK does the government has a majority of one seat because
34:33
of their system they lose one seat and suddenly the majority is gone you look at Canada Trudeau is already struggling in the polls suggesting in the next election you may well have a sort of neck
34:44
and neck between Trudeau and the other side which again gives a disproportionate influence to those
34:51
quote unquote marginal issues like GZA or the like in which those small numbers like in Wisconsin
34:57
,000 difference where in Canada the election can be decided by that and there's already CMAC and
35:03
these other organizations you know moving to try to AR organize a movement like the Muslim vote
35:08
in the UK like the abandoned Harris in the US and the like people move so I think that it's not just
35:13
about where do we go in terms of the Americas I think that the momentum is not finished yet
35:18
so far in the UK there was a a a limited or or some impact on the vote but of course first pass
35:25
the post system and N faraj sort of make a bit harder to see their impact us we've seen a clear
35:30
impact in terms of that mobilization with Gaza if Canada and Australia suffer the same fate or
35:37
not suffer we don't want these countri to suffer but if Canada and Australia if they meet the same
35:43
Consequence the the the current administrations or the incumbents as Harris met in the US and
35:49
Biden met in the US I think at that point the opportunities that we see today might actually
35:54
be much more when that moment arises and I think I think that's the time when you talk about when to maximize it and that's why I'm very wary in that I'm aware that people talk in congratulatory
36:05
messages with regards to the loss of Harris and I'm very wary of that why because Trump is also
36:11
a beast that to be reckoned with and may even be a greater challenge than Biden and Harris no one was
36:17
under any Illusions in terms of who is worse between Harris and Trump my argument was not that Trump is better than Harris my argument was not that Harris is worse than Trump my argument
36:27
was that the consequences of Harris winning were worse than Trump winning in the elections itself
36:33
and I think Trump is a new battle and I'm wory of people patting themselves on the back because I think that the roller coaster has just started so let's talk about Trump because I want to dedicate
36:42
the rest of today's discussion to Donald Trump his philosophy what he stands for uh how he's going to impact domestic policy in America and of course International policy so let's start with
36:52
International policy first because of course uh there was a debate amongst some Muslims but Trump
36:57
would be either worse or better on Palestine and it just seems to me that a lot of this is
37:02
still unknown because Trump is is a a Mercurial figure but when it comes to Palestine policy do
Is Netanyahu emboldened by the Trump presidency?
37:11
you believe that um especially with some of the appointments uh and some of the sort of
37:18
the the Rumblings of the of the administration Marco Rubio you mentioned and others the UN
37:23
Ambassador appointment it seems to me that uh possibly Netanyahu may be emboldened by a new
37:31
Trump Administration in fact smri just just as we uh came uh came came on our show today
37:38
MRE said that we have an opportunity with the Trump presidency uh to expand our settlements
37:43
in the West Bank this doesn't look good for the Palestinians um uh what's your analysis of trump
37:51
and Gaza and Palestine I think that one of the things that is worth noting is that nobody's entirely sure exactly what Trump's policy on Palestine is going to be and I explain what I
37:59
mean at the moment of when we're recording his whole cabinet hasn't been appointed yet and in fact when you look at those magga debates taking place you know Donald Trump junor and the like
38:08
it's clear that there is some disagreement about what those appointments should be but putting
38:14
that aside without getting too much into their internal discussions I think that the Times of Israel had a very interesting article where it said that Trump had essentially told Netanyahu
38:22
that this genocide has to be over before I enter the White House that I will not tolerate the stuff
38:27
under my watch I want to be somebody who everybody says I bring peace to the world I bring peace to the world and I think that when and Netanyahu come out and say you know annexation of the West Bank
38:37
is now back on the table I think just as much as it is possible that they are genuinely asserting
38:44
that annexation is on the table I think just as much as that might be a possibility it is equally
38:50
possible that they are pumping their chests as they try to figure out what it is exactly that
38:55
Donald Trump will do and the reason reason why I say this is that there was a lot of talk about what Trump would do in the Middle East when he was in power last time particularly with regards
39:04
to pressure on Iran particularly with regards to pushing for normalization of ties the idea that if he move the embassy to Jerusalem the world would follow him and the like but instead what we found
39:13
was when Saudi Arabia with the oil facility of ab was attacked in 2019 by the houthis and
39:19
the Saudis felt that Trump would be more likely to engage against the Iranians and send troops
39:24
Trump essentially followed the Democrat policy of not engaging against the Iranians there was one assassination of kasani and a quick deescalation because Trump's policy was clear I don't want war
39:35
in Syria when people expected it to light up again when Donald Trump came to power instead we found
39:41
that James Jeffrey the US Envoy to Syria would later do an interview with monitor where he would
39:46
say Donald Trump every single day would ask us why on Earth are we in Syria we want to withdraw from Syria we saw with Afghanistan instead of exacerbating the situation Afghanistan we saw said
39:57
that he unilaterally turned around to his Chiefs and said to them guys we're leaving Afghanistan in
40:02
his previous cabinet when he appointed the Hawks like John Bolton or the like and everybody said that John Bolton being in this position means it will lead to War and the like John Bolton cannot
40:12
take takes John Bolton takes every opportunity to lambas Donald Trump because Donald Trump had
40:18
him as in a senior position in the government and then sidelined him and rendered him Irrelevant in terms of what he wanted to do with regards to foreign policy and this is why I argue
40:27
that when it comes to the appointments that Donald Trump is making it's unclear whether these appointments are about keeping the party together or whether they actually reflect what he
40:35
wants to do in terms of foreign policy there was an interesting opad in the Jerusalem Post calling
40:40
on Jared Kushner to take a greater role and Serena Jared Kushner saying that Israel is pinning its
40:46
hopes on you suggesting that perhaps as far as the Israelis are concerned they are not sure if
40:51
Jared kushna would play the dominant role that he played before now I'm not saying that all of this is Su just that there is optimism what I'm saying is even the Israelis are not sure what Donald
41:02
Trump's policy is going to be and the expectations of what Donald Trump was going to do in his last
41:07
term did not come to fruition and disappointed the Saudis disappointed the UAE disappointed a
41:13
lot of those allies who believed that Trump being in power would lead to an assertion of their own
41:19
interest over Iran or the like and that's why and especially when it comes to the genocide just as it is possible that Trump might encourage Netanyahu to finish the job as he said it is
41:29
equally possible that Trump might call Netanyahu and tell him dude I need this to finish I can't have this genocide no more I want people to say Donald Trump brought peace where Biden could
41:38
not and that's why I think a lot of the B Trump's Outreach to the Muslim Americans in in the US say
41:45
about it what you will it was probably pragmatism or the like but I think what's interesting is the
41:50
imams who met with Trump in debor Michigan yes you saw the WhatsApp that they put on their Twitter
41:57
where they said we reached out to Harris and we reached out to Trump trump agreed to meet us Harris refused to why did Harris refuse to meet with the imams because Harris was terrified that
42:08
if she meets with the imams the Zionist donors of the Democrats who do Zionist who donate more to
42:13
Democrats than they do to Republicans the Zionist would be upset and furious with her and Clinton
42:19
I think epitomized the mood in the Democrats with regards to Zionism in that Clinton went to Michigan knowing they desperately needed it and instead of saying to the Muslim Americans I hear
42:30
you he told them you know in Translation ignor you know Israel has a right to do what it's doing
42:37
and the Israelis where they're first because for Clinton the do the desire of the donors outweighs
42:43
the Electoral need or what's happening on the ground the point here being is if Harris refused
42:48
to meet them because it was upset the Zionist were the Zionist upset that Trump met the imams
42:54
would how would the Zionist react to Trump telling those in deborn I'm going to bring peace I'm going
43:00
to end it I'm going to stop it is the Zionist saying Trump is only saying it as lit service
43:05
to win or is the Zionist saying Biden was more loyal than you are Harris was more loyal than you
43:12
are Clinton is more loyal than you are Obama is more loyal than you are because they wouldn't say
43:18
those things Harris was so loyal she didn't allow a Palestinian speaker to speak at the DNC Trump
43:25
allowed the yemeni Imam to go and speak on stage I'm not saying Trump is a good man by any stretch
43:30
of the imagination what I'm saying is as much fear as Muslims might have of trump I actually think
43:36
that Israelis have an equal level of uncertainty about what Trump is actually going to do in the
43:41
region in terms of the Wild Card option that he presents so should Iran have some interfere from Trump I know you've you've said we don't know uh what Trump's policy is but just uh if we were to
Does Iran have to worry about Trump?
43:52
extrapolate from his America First no war in the Middle East focus on China and and and the like
43:59
uh do you think that Iran has something to worry in the next few weeks and months because of course Netanyahu uh in his congratulatory um phone call to uh to Donald Trump did mention that we now need
44:11
to focus on Iran um so how do you see Iran's uh is it should Iran be fearful uh with what may happen
44:20
when a trump presidency is realized I think that if you ask this in abstract the answer is easy and
44:31
that Iran has more to fear from Trump than Biden but I no longer think this is the case when you
44:36
put things into context consider what Biden did Biden allowed a full-on genocide on RZA Biden
44:44
gave every weapon that Israel needed to commit the genocide and more Biden appended the international
44:51
order to allow Israel to commit its genocide Biden threatened the icj and ICC when they sought to
44:59
step in to try to stop the genocide Biden ordered his un ambassador to stand alone in voting against
45:07
every resolution calling for a ceasefire when the whole world voted for a resolution calling for the
45:13
end of occupation Biden stood Alan and instead said that we're going to veto and were going to
45:18
vote against this resolution when the Israelis went and hit Iran Biden essentially allowed them
45:25
to go and hit hisbah Lebanon and allowed them to continue firing M missiles without repercussions
45:31
it's true Biden allowed a bit of f here and there in terms of agreeing with the Iranians where they could hit and what show they could do yeah but I think that it was clear that the trajectory that
45:41
Biden was going if the Israelis wanted a war with Iran Biden would probably have gone along with it I think that Biden was so Zionist and his administration blinking Jake Sullivan John
45:52
Kirby Matthew Miller these were so Zionist that whatever Israel wanted of them I think they could have been convinced for convinced to do it even if Biden was hesitant about a war with
46:02
Iran I actually think that the Iranians it may well be that the Iranians might be breathing a
46:07
sigh of relief because Biden clearly showed that either he could not stand up to the Israelis or he
46:13
did not want to stand up to the Israelis or he was full on with the Israelis but with Trump I
46:19
think that where Biden is an ideologue committed to Zionism Trump is a transactional list there's
46:24
a very interesting excerpt about his negotiations with the Taliban where his advisers were telling him Mr President this is a really bad idea and withdrawing from Afghanistan really bad for us
46:34
Interest really bad and after they finish he says to them did you see how the Taliban called me your Excellency there there there is something about the way that Trump conducts his
46:43
foreign policy they love me you know that the way that the transactional personal nature of it that
46:49
suggest that the Wild Card option for Iran is better than the guaranteed option of Biden in
46:55
which he was running headlong in his support for Zionism in a way in which Israel was not being
47:01
reigned in and Netanyahu instead was feeling more and more embolden to continue doing what he was doing despite the whole world turning against him I think that more than the Iranians I think it's
47:12
the Saudis who might feel a bit more concerned about Trump coming into power can I ask on the
47:19
Saudi issue say if I can just uh bring in so today I read uh or someone told me actually on on U uh
47:27
news that NBS for the first time maybe has called what's happening in Gaza genocide but in that same
47:32
statement he mentioned that um he warned against an attack on Iran like how do you uh see Muhammad
47:41
bin man State of Mind at the moment in in relation to Iran and and Trump I think that if you open a
47:49
map of the region yeah and you look at where Saudi Arabia is situated to the north you have
47:56
Iraq where Iran's militias roam freely and have a iron grip on the government to the east you
48:04
have Iran Mainland and to the South you have the houthis backed by the Iranians who after a decade
48:12
of War remain very much entrenched in s and as a result of and them firing missiles are actually
48:19
enjoying increasing International sympathies from the Arab and Muslim world for what they've done
48:26
in in terms of firing those missiles at Israel or the like the Saudi policy with the Americans was
48:33
we want the Americans to do the fighting for us so they wanted the Americans to come and fight with
48:38
them against the Iranian proxies whether that's in Syria whether that's in uh Yemen whether that's in
48:45
Iraq or the like as the years went by it became clear that Obama was not interested in doing the
48:51
fighting himself Trump was not interested in doing the fighting himself when the oil facilities were hit Trump did not react with war Trump when it came to the situation in Yemen gave
49:01
limited support he allowed the Saudis to do their thing but gave very limited support Trump was not willing to engage directly in war and as a result of this the Saudis felt that given that we're
49:10
being encircled by the Iranians given we lack the force to drive out the proxies given we lack the
49:17
ability to drive Bashar al-assad out of Damascus we lack the ability to drive the huis out of s
49:22
and given that the Americans are not inclined to fight and given that even the Israelis cannnot
49:28
convince the Americans to fight with the Iranians hammed B J the Prime Minister he said when Arabs
49:33
get close to the Israelis is not because they like the Israelis it's because they believe Israel is the key to the White House and Congress when Saudi saw that not even the Israelis could convince the
49:43
Americans Democrat and Republican to go to war with the Iranians and drive out these proxies
49:49
from Iraq from Yemen and from Syria and the like Muhammad bin Salman says I'm now s eight years
49:55
in power my neon project is not going well I've had to significantly reduce it I've had to Second
50:01
it CEO on the day of this recording while I'm doing the Raves and the partying unemployment
50:06
is starting to sore and the saudization project is not going well because Saudis don't want to
50:12
do the work of the bengalis and pakistanis and Egyptians that I bring from abroad my coffers
50:18
are being depleted by the mega projects that I'm investing in so I'm having to take loans now from
50:24
International Banks and the like come compies are not setting up in Saudi Arabia they're setting
50:29
up in the UAE because they don't trust my legal system in Saudi Arabia because they believe that I
50:34
can wake up at any day and issue an order whereas UAE at least gives them free zones where they have some sort of stability with regards to law and not only that the missiles that are being fired at me
50:44
by the houthis and by the Iranian proxies in Iraq in 2019 and in 2020 have meant that companies also
50:51
fear a security risk of doing business in Saudi Arabia and it's also my normalization process
50:57
with the Israelis where I opened up the airspace I allowed them a land bridge during genocide I told
51:02
blinkin that Palestine is not an important issue for me it's just for my people I need to give them some I allowed Israelis to enter my kingdom to ISS to participate in sports tournaments I raise the
51:12
Israeli flag at a rehearsal of EA Force tournament and allow the Israeli National Anthem to continue
51:18
going I've adjusted the education curriculum to remove the parts of the Quran that refer to Ben is I've done all of these normalization things and kept the airspace and Bridge open I've done all of
51:28
these things but the Israelis still are unable to convince the Americans to give me the natal
51:34
style security agreement that I want against the Iranians given that the Americans have been so
51:41
bitterly disappointing Republican and Democrat I need the Iranians to get off my back so I can
51:47
focus on my Raves and my concerts and my Economic Development inside Saudi Arabia itself and my de
51:53
islamization process Iran what do you want to get off my back for 10 years Iran said we want you to
52:01
rehabilitate Bashar Al Assad because he's isolated binman said Bashar Assad was brought to the Arab
52:07
League Summit to R and this is I think his second or third time participating yesterday when he was participating in in in the Arab League yeah the he said to Iran is that enough Bashar Al Assad is
52:18
now rehabilitated they said we want you to make a deal with theis binman sends his delegation to
52:24
and to mus to start negotiating a deal deal with regards to the huis in terms of recognition and offering compensation Iran is that enough oh wait we have Lebanon that we want to consider as well
52:35
when Israel attacked the Palestinians the Saudis put that reconciliation on hold because the Saudis
52:41
felt that if Israel went after Hamas the Muslim Brotherhood they could be convinced to go after
52:46
hisbah in Lebanon and to go after Iranian proxies in Syria so Saudi media was heavily pro-israel in
52:53
terms of pushing the Zionist narrative that is had to attack Lebanon that the reason it's
52:58
attacking Lebanon is because of Iran the reason it's attacking Lebanon is because of hisbah and you would have seen Saudi commentator celebrating that Israel was attacking Lebanon and celebrating
53:08
hass's assassination and celebrating yar's death and the like we saw those taking place the Saudis
53:15
pushing that narrative in and of itself but given that Israel has failed to achieve its strategic
53:21
objectives binson man is unsure if Trump is going to provide what he wants in a NATO style security
53:29
agreement nuclear technology to rival the Iranians in the hope of building a weapon and investment
53:34
given that it's not certain Trump will give it let me up my leverage and up my demands by calling it
53:41
a genocide right let me sit here and say I'm going to call it a genocide if you want me not
53:47
to call it a genocide come at me with a new offer that will make me go back to my previous position
53:53
but bin man's sincerity in his desire to normalize with Israel and in his desire to be friends with
54:00
Donald Trump is indicated in that while he calls it a genocide and while he calls for a for a
54:07
Palestinian State he does not shut his airspace to the Israeli planes they still use Israeli airspace
54:13
he hasn't shut the land bridge that goes from the UAE to irbid in Jordan about a few kilometers from
54:19
the uh border between Jordan and the Israelis where the Israelis cross over they pick up the goods and they go he hasn't shut the landbridge Alia often referred to as Al the Hebrew channel
54:30
is still propagating Zionist propaganda in terms of moving in terms of pushing that forward those
54:36
who are wearing free Palestine jumpers or shirts in the har in mea Medina are still being detained
54:42
and told to cover it and told not to wear it if you go to Saudi Arabia you will see and see
54:47
their graduation ceremonies it's as if there's no genocide that is taking place the riy season continues unabated binman is saying don't look at what I say look at what I do I still want to
54:58
normalize I still want good ties my three demands stand I don't need a Palestinian State I need a
55:03
NATO start Security agement nuclear technology and investment in my vision 2030 Trump if you give that to me I'm just a genocide getting ready for that table I'm ready to and that's the issue
55:13
in that and to finish on this point Trump Saudi doesn't know what Trump's policy is going to be
55:20
neither do the Israelis and you can feel everybody now drling preparing themselves for that table of
55:25
negotiation to see what Trump might offer when he comes into presidency because it's important to remember as well how Trump views the gulf you'll remember that he did that rally I think in 2018
55:35
where he said I met with the Saudi king and I said we wouldn't last two weeks without us Iran would
55:40
overrun you so I'm sorry for our security you got to pay you got to pay and when bin Salman went to
55:45
visit him in Washington and there was he made him hold the the plard and he made bin Selman hold it
55:52
and said this is all the stuff that they're buying bman had to hold it awkwardly and he said this is all peanuts to you and also Bob Woodward if you've been reading his extracts where he says that Trump
56:01
sent a messenger to bin Salman and said after Kash you owe us you owe us for what we did in
56:06
terms of rescuing you with regards to and that's why although ostensibly there is a case to argue
56:13
that bin Salman is happy that Biden lost and Bin Salman and that Trump came to power it might be
56:19
that bin Salman in these recent days might have preferred Biden over Trump because Biden at least
56:25
was beginning to see on the issues of nuclear technology and beginning to seed on the issue of a NATO style security agreement by agreeing to give agreement like he gave to bahin with regards
56:34
to the security but all of these Dynamics aside I think that the the the Crux of it is it remains
56:40
unclear how Trump will impact the region earlier on in the conversation um you talked about the tensions that exist and existed during the first Trump presidency between the different strands
Is the Trump administration going to be more ‘America First’?
56:50
of the Republicans now I've heard some analysis that this uh Trump administ ation is going to be
56:57
different He's already calling for a loyalty test for anyone so we're not going to have uh the John
57:03
uh the Melly the general Kelly the John Bolton the mcms uh the you know those who uh ostensibly at
57:11
least you know claim to be Pro Trump but we're still um uh holding on to that old globalist
57:19
agenda that neocon agenda that uh you can say the post second world war consensus of of America
57:25
where um uh there where America's foreign policy is B built on sort of this militaristic Outlook
57:33
um so the argument goes that the current Trump Administration is going to look more American
57:40
first and madder than more uh uh more globalist and neocon now of course some of the most recent
57:48
appointments seem to question that before we get to that conundrum because there is that tension in the Republican party and and also I suppose you have a that the sort of the point there is that
57:58
the Republican party in 2016 is not the Republican party today Trump owns this party whereas in 2016
58:05
he still had to deal with the tensions and and the power Brokers wouldve been the you know the old guard wouldve been the Republican party today anyone in the Republican party that once again
58:15
anyway we we saw about Willis Cheney has to First pay allegiance to Donald Trump so the question
58:21
first is just lay out for me this tension between the Maga America First Trump policies uh and the
58:31
sort of the old style the Old Guard the globalist and the neocons like explain that to our viewers
58:37
please I don't think necessarily it's just the two sided divide I think there's a third Dynamic which
58:45
is also the Zionist and the Republicans Trump received 100 million from adson in order to
58:51
Annex the West Bank in order to fully support the Israelis and the like and I actually think that given that there is a push for this narrative that Harris lost because of a support for the Israelis
59:01
I think zus are an overdrive to ensure that they still maintain supreme power over foreign policy
59:08
in terms of what's moving forward and that's why I think there's a big focus on the Democrat Reflections to insist that GZA didn't have a role to play I think that while the data shows GZA had
59:17
a role to play I think the Zionist are pushing to ensure to argue that g didn't have a role to play because then it would suggest that support for Israel has become a liability and that's
59:25
why I think that it's very important everybody looks at that data and also the 10 million who stayed at home who felt that Harris's support for genocide was so extreme that they could not bring
59:35
themselves even to go to The Ballot Box and save America at least from the Democrat narrative to save America from fascism they prefer to stay at home because they saw no difference between
59:45
Harris and Trump with regards to the threat that they posed to America given their support for the Israelis or the light but I think that there are three Dynamics I think the first is the idea of
59:53
the America First the idea that we should focus Fus on what's happening at home the idea that we should focus our resources on what's happening at home and I think that when you look at the
1:00:04
analysis of why Trump won Bernie Sanders argues is because the Democrats abandoned the working class if you look at the celebrities who went to the Democrat rallies you will see that it clearly
1:00:14
showed that Democrats were not necessarily your traditional workingclass party anymore but rather
1:00:19
it was a very glitzy you know upper middle class upper class party almost became a party of the
1:00:24
rich yeah while Trump was going around and campaigning however sincere or insincere he
1:00:30
might have been but going out and campaigning and saying the reason you're in this mess in the first place is because those in Washington Democrats are more focused on the rich they're no
1:00:37
longer focused on you the reason why I focus on this particular part is there are those America
1:00:42
First there are those who are the globalists but I think the real battle would be those with the Zionist because I think the common denominator with these initial appointments are that they
1:00:51
have a very strong pro-israeli stance very strong Pro Zionist stance and they are heavily funded by
1:00:57
ape they individuals heavily funded by APAC almost as if Trump is wrestling or at least the family of
1:01:03
trump are wrestling between the demands of the globalist the Zionist and those who are coming
1:01:08
out and saying America First and mega first Trump remains a personality that can assert
1:01:15
himself against all three but the issue is that it's unclear where Trump stands on any particular
1:01:20
issue and there's often the assumption that Trump doesn't actually have any opinion on any issue Trump's opinion depends on who he has breakfast with on that particular day and and the like but
1:01:31
but I think that if we're assessing the division of the Republican party I think those divisions
1:01:39
the concern in the Republican Party regarding these divisions is how it forces the world to
1:01:45
shift macron is already talking about EU needs to pursue its own security policy China number
1:01:52
one Public Enemy for a lot of these Republicans shifting Focus away from the Middle East to focus
1:01:57
on China or the like Russia and the war in Ukraine but there is one final Dynamic that is worth
1:02:03
noting which is a lot of these appointments that are being made if you look at their statements in 2016 and the statements today there's a lot of 180 that is taking place Marco Rubio is changing
1:02:12
his opinion 180 with regards to Ukraine aligning it aligning it much more with Trump a lot of the other appointments also aligning themselves with Trump how the Trump factor affects those policies
1:02:22
remains to be seen but I do think that my concern and focusing in these Republican divisions is
1:02:28
that it suggests that these divisions will lead to a radical change in policy from that which
1:02:33
we've seen in the past you don't think it' be a transformation and I don't think necessar it would be a transformational because the problem in the American system is not one of two ideologies it is
1:02:45
the fact that there exists a machine where whoever is in power it just seems to keep pushing out War
1:02:52
if it ends in one place it starts in another and and I think that although Trump presents himself
1:02:57
as the anti-war candidate the encouragement he gave to the Israelis by facilitating normalization
1:03:03
of ties helped to pave the way for this genocide that took place in the first place I don't think he's blameless with regards to that moreover I think that Trump created or normalized what
1:03:18
Biden could not normalize had Trump not existed I think that that support where he normalized ties
1:03:25
between Arab states and the Israelis gave Biden the encouragement to go and say I'm going to one up Trump with regards to Israel in that now Arab states have normalized let me go ahead with the
1:03:34
genocide and I think when you look at the Arab states position what Trump normalized in their
1:03:41
relation with Israel this genocide would have been finished today if the Arab states took a position
1:03:46
but I think it's becoming abundantly clear that the Arab states remain supportive of the genocide
1:03:51
not apathetic they remain supportive of the genocide because they believe there is a greater
1:03:57
interest in keeping Israel on board because Israel can influence both Republicans and Democrats at
1:04:02
least from their belief and I think that's where I think the real damage is May maybe um uh Israel
1:04:08
Palestine is an aberration in in this schema right so of course the Zionist Lobby is strong
1:04:15
and and powerful and U Donald Trump is not going to depart from that consensus that but you know
1:04:22
consensus between the two parties on on Palestine Israel but I think it's interesting to uh at least
1:04:28
from my side it's interesting to take note of uh this America First policy and whether it's going
‘America First’ from a trade perspective
1:04:35
to be transformation I think it is going to be for example on trade policy now of course all of this could just be Bluster but on trade policy Donald Trump has stated that he wants to Levy uh tariffs
1:04:46
on almost every good coming from outside even like very basic Goods now of course he's not going to do that but he's not differentiated greatly between and foe you know he's he's already talked
1:04:58
about tariffs uh being levied against European Imports for example if they don't behave and
1:05:03
so uh he said that the last time round um and maybe uh the the moderators within his he his
1:05:12
administration were able to uh to hold him back but I personally think that there's going to be
1:05:18
a stronger America First emphasis here at least on China I mean I I think we both agree that with
1:05:24
China um there is going to be a very assertive probably aggressive trade policy against China
1:05:30
I mean speak to the trade side of things I mean do you feel that um because of course the globalists
1:05:36
uh have this very basic assumption that free trade is good Trump is upending that assumption quite
1:05:44
radically seems to me I mean yeah speak to our on trade I think that Trump certainly shook things
1:05:50
up when he imposed those tariffs on Chinese Goods coming in but I think a lot of American companies were able to bypass that as well I think the other impact that Trump had was he forced a
1:06:00
reckoning amongst us allies whereby there was a bid to try to accelerate Independence of the US
1:06:06
because the US was trying to shut itself off from trade in terms of asserting that America First policy yeah but the reason why I said that I am wary of the impact that Trump will actually have
1:06:16
in this regard yeah is that once Trump was out of power and Biden won the EU stopped pursuing
1:06:22
its independence it still relied on a you global order underpinned by the US even when we look
1:06:28
at the Muslim world I mean everybody points at turkey and erdogan you know pursuing some sort of Independence or the like yeah but today we seem him so heavily dependent on the US Global Order
1:06:37
that even when it comes to a genocide he's unable to take any serious stance with regards to the genocide and ships are heading to Israel are still docking in turkey and it takes a municipality
1:06:46
election to get him to suspend trade but instead we see Turkish companies bypassing sending their ships to Cyprus or Greece and changing their Flags almost as if erdogan is saying to the is
1:06:56
the genocide is making me try to appease the Turkish population but I don't want to ruin my ties with you Egypt you would have thought in economic crisis in America First policy
1:07:04
under Donald Trump after the way he bullied those Muslim states they would also pursue an alternative whether it's joining bricks or the like but the reality is that I will never forget
1:07:12
the image of Biden in India when he stood with India South Africa and I can't remember Brazil
1:07:18
and I can't remember the others and the bricks members and the and the caption was these are us allies too the suggestion being that that yes we can talk about alternative economic models but
1:07:28
I still think that even with Trump in power yes those four years brought about a debate about how to move away from the US because of those tariffs but the reality is that their economies once Trump
1:07:37
went there wasn't an impetus to continue pursuing that but rather there was sort of a reversion back to a Alliance towards the US in terms of its political power in terms of its economic power and
1:07:48
the like and that's why I argue that when we talk about America First with regards to what Trump actually wants to do it remains to be seen how that will manifest how does it manifest in terms
1:07:57
of imposing tariffs with regards to the EU and then realizing you need to import those goods from outside anyway in order to supply the American demand what loopholes will you leave open that
1:08:08
end up undermining your America first because the way the way the world works is it's very difficult to be isolationist the way everything operates what happens if that Gap that you've left for
1:08:17
China China takes advantage and starts you know expanding the way it's done in Africa or erdogan starts doing it the way he does in Africa and US interests start to become undermine what do you do
1:08:26
then as a US foreign policy you abandon America First America First in this context means to go back out in the world and lash out more violently in order to impose yourself in the way that Biden
1:08:36
did so in Israel in the way that the others and that's why I argue that in theory there's a lot of
1:08:41
possibility but I think sometimes in theory we get lost and and we lose sight of the practicalities
1:08:47
of what Trump actually wants to implement this is still a global order in which it is underpinned by
1:08:53
the ability of the US to organize for for in a way that is unrivaled and unmatched in today's world
1:08:59
and I think what festine and what demonstrated is is that the facade of an international order is
1:09:06
upheld by the force of the United States and when us chooses that that this International order no
1:09:13
longer serves its purpose it comes crashing down and no one can lift it back up no one is willing
1:09:19
to use the power to lift it back up and no one is willing to deploy its resources to create an alter
1:09:25
ative order instead you have China when we look at what's happening intine and Israel with regards to
1:09:32
the shift away from or or the anger towards the us or what's happening in Israel and Palestine
1:09:37
from states that are sympathetic how has China capitalized is very difficult to pinpoint a way
1:09:43
in which China has capitalized in a way that suggests a genuine shift away from the US think
1:09:48
about it this way before Israel and Palestine people before the the genocide taking place we
1:09:54
were talking about the potential of people looking East after this genocide everybody is looking West
1:10:02
after this manifestation of brutal unadulterated power everybody is looking towards Washington
1:10:10
everybody is trying to see what Washington is going to do out of fear that Washington might come and bulldoze those countries as well and China will have the same fear as well and that's
1:10:20
why I argued earlier when you said the future of Muslims is it Republican Democrat or green party
1:10:25
the same analogy applies to the world in that it I don't think that the solution moving forward
1:10:31
exists within the current system the reason why I focused on the concept of Da and being able to shift public opinion is what has demonstrated the genocide is is created an environment in which we
Gaza created a new environment
1:10:43
can actually now start to discuss new ideas and convince the public to entertain those ideas in
1:10:50
spite of regimes that despise those ideas it has created an environment where before only
1:10:56
in certain Corners you could talk about new models you could talk about new systems now it's come out
1:11:02
in the open because everybody is dissatisfied with this International order including the 10
1:11:08
million who cost Harris the election in America including those who stayed home and truly
1:11:14
believed that there was no difference between a genocide and a fascist they saw no difference
1:11:20
between Democrats and Republicans and that's what made them stay home the question here is
1:11:25
not about what Trump will do in terms of the actual charot or trades but rather now that we
1:11:30
have this environment where people can discuss new ideas and the public might be able to get behind
1:11:36
it in ways it was never able to do so before what are these ideas that could be presented and that's
1:11:42
why I think that there is very much a possibility that Trump's aggressiveness against the world in
1:11:49
pursuing America First May well cause certain leaders to start to consider alternative models
1:11:56
but the reason why I'm not relying too much on the governments and more on the public is that what prevents leaders from pursuing new models is the fear that a public backlash because they know
1:12:06
the public aren't on their side and that's why I'm more focused on how do you mobilize now the public given that showed you can mobilize them and that people you didn't think could be mobilized can
1:12:16
be mobilized and narratives in areas where you thought couldn't be changed can be changed with
1:12:21
it's t Carlson with it's Candace Owens with tessi Co with his friend ches Ali coming out full force
1:12:27
talking about Gaz I know you had on one of your podcasts over here yeah whether it's regards to
1:12:32
Spain talking about favoring Palestine whether about Ireland Norway South Africa there are new
1:12:38
avenues there are new opportunities the question is not what Will trump do the question is now that
1:12:43
the public have shifted the world in a way that created those opportunities in spite of Biden
1:12:50
in spite of Democrats in spite of Republicans in spite of in spite of the EU in spite of the
1:12:58
international order no government brought about this change it was people that brought about it
1:13:04
the question is not what Will trump what change Will trump bring the question is how far can this public pressure go how far can this public opinion change and how far can these new opportunities go
1:13:15
and how can you ganize that momentum to create something new and that's what I'm scared of I'm
1:13:21
scared that in the focus of trump in the focus on the US in the focus on Green Party in the
1:13:27
focus on the systens themselves we lose our eye on the ball in terms of what created this change
1:13:32
and that's why I'm more focused on now that you see that binman has gone back to making Dua for festine where he had banned it for a year and a half where you've seen the UAE now coming
1:13:41
out and giving Aid to Sudan because it's terrified that people are starting to discover the genocide
1:13:47
it's committing in Sudan when you see that Egypt CeCe on the one hand is letting Israeli ships go
1:13:52
through on the other hand increasingly panicking that his people are Furious and they might revolt against him that erdogan is trying to keep the peace with the US and the Israelis the Turks are
1:14:01
giving him hell for it they're making it very difficult for him to do so he is struggling to balance between Turks who punished him with the municipality elections and between his
1:14:10
desire to be in power by maintaining good ties with the US and the Israelis we're seeing these
1:14:16
shifts take place around of the world because of public opinion and public pressure and that's where I think that Trump May well try to pursue a globalist or Zionist or America First agenda but I
What will dictate the future of America?
1:14:27
don't think that's what will dictate the future of America what will dictate the future of America is this 10 million could it become 20 million next time and the same way that the system in 1968
1:14:37
was forced to bend over backwards and give rights to African-Americans when it was not designed to do so the same way in 1920s they were forced to acknowledge that women should have equal rights
1:14:47
at The Ballot Box the same way as men in in very recent times we're talking 100 years ago in what
1:14:52
way will the system Bend now as a result of public pressure nobody knows but it's interesting to see where it goes I think that's fantastic and I would like to pick up on the public pressure thing I
1:14:59
don't necessarily think it's even the 10 million I think it's 150 million who voted because uh if
1:15:05
we were to consider uh this America if we were to claim that America firsts is a cerent ideology it
1:15:12
reflects the mindset of lots of Americans who feel that the current world order has failed them it's failed America it hasn't given America the type of wealth and the type of strength that
1:15:22
he he claimed uh at the beginning of the end of the Cold War and there is a recognition I
1:15:27
think amongst a lot of Americans and I think Trump fairly reflects this but the rise of China which
1:15:34
is for sure the biggest uh threat that America faces in this coming decade the rise of China was
1:15:40
down to America's complacency with this globalist globalization agenda we allowed China to rise
1:15:47
China became Rich China became powerful and now China asserts itself on the international stage so
1:15:54
in a sense I think I and it's a question for you um public opinion of those voters in America is
Public opinion in America turning towards Nationalism?
1:16:00
pushing America in a very parochial nationalistic nativist Direction and I think Trump quite fairly
1:16:09
whereas the Democrats claim to represented Biden never signed a single trade agreement with any
1:16:15
entity during his four years but the Democrats still play uh still have very strong globalist
1:16:21
agendas globalist policies you know I think it may be and again you know I agree with you that
1:16:27
who knows what's going to happen Trump is a very mural person but I think there is a greater chance
1:16:33
let's put it like that that the the uh let's call it the America First impulse comes through in
1:16:39
these next four years I think it's going to be transformational at least that's maybe in four years time in if Allah still gives us life we'll be sitting here and you'll be coming back from a
1:16:49
trip and talking about jet lag and how warm is in California again but I think maybe in four years
1:16:54
time we may talk about quite a transformational but but I agree with you in this regard one of the things that I noticed in America was and it's like one of the points that I mentioned earlier
1:17:01
about in California some of those who voted Trump they were saying that you know weaz doesn't matter
1:17:09
to usaz only matters to us in so far as why are things so expensive for me here and I'm giving
1:17:15
money to Israel over there why is Healthcare so expensive for me here and my government is telling
1:17:20
me I have to give money to Israel over there Ukraine why and and Ukraine and these things and that's why I think this is why I always argue politics is the is is is is the science of human
1:17:30
relations it's a very simple science it's governed by human emotions by human sentiments an ordinary
1:17:36
cab driver or or or or or blue collar or white color worker in America the reality is that and
1:17:42
and this is what I meant when you go to America you realize this when you talk to Americans about what's happening in Gaz and festine you can convince them genocide is wrong they would be
1:17:50
horrified by the images and then they will ask themselves my taxpayer money is going towards
1:17:55
that but I'm struggling in my own and that's the point in that America First may not manifest on
1:18:02
the grand level rather the power of the America First is in the way the Americans vote in which
1:18:07
they say Democrats talk way too much about Israel they talk way too much about Palestine they talk
1:18:13
why are we sponsoring this genocide in the first place I want things to be focused at home Harris
1:18:18
talk too much about Gaza Trump talks about saying he's going to make peace in the world and focus on me home I'll vote for the one who talks to me here at home and this is the point where I made earlier
1:18:27
when you were saying what is the true impact of razza the true impact of Gazza was not just in those who voted because they wanted to punish the people because punish the Democrats because they
1:18:37
supported genocide the power of razza was also in the way in which it exposed to the ordinary
1:18:43
American that a lot of the problems they're suffering in America at home the reason they're not being fixed is because you have a government that believes in Israel first that believes in
1:18:53
and they said this can't tolerate exposed and therefore I'm going to punish the Democrats not
1:18:59
because they committed a genocide but because they favored a foreign Nation over my own interests and
1:19:04
they should be serving me not the Israelis and I think that that impact will be very difficult to
1:19:11
measure but it's undeniable it's beyond just the 10 million that stayed at home it's also amongst
1:19:17
those who decided to go and vote for Trump over Harris because they truly believed I want to keep my money in America itself and that's the point with regards to Da in terms of talking to people
Dawah’s ability to shift society
1:19:28
what is your ability to shift Society I mean you are here in the Muslim vote in the UK sometimes they get criticized they say sam you spent a lot of time in different countries in the world you
1:19:36
neglect your home country in in the UK but but you saw how you could talk to I mean you've had
1:19:42
so many non-muslim guests on the show who come and join the thinking Muslim to talk about issues that
1:19:49
matter to Muslim and non-muslim who talk with the and you I've seen passionate the way they
1:19:55
talk to you their hearts are rent with regards to what's happening in the world they see the
1:20:01
Injustice that's taking place and they've seen a resonance with what this podcast says with what
1:20:06
you say and the topics that you say because F exists in the human being and that's why I
1:20:11
argue when you talk about America first I've met the Americans I've been to nearly every single state except New Hampshire I I promise you there are nice people in this world who are
1:20:22
just ignorant about what's happening in the world who if you were to show them what is happening in
1:20:29
the world you will realize that their hearts move with just as much passion as your heart moves and
1:20:35
that's why im's statement it rings in my it gives me nightmares at night Sam he says we don't do da
1:20:43
no more we don't we do not do that we think we do but we do not he has a very famous story where he
1:20:50
cleared these crack houses near near Brooklyn when he established the Masjid and I told him with what audacity do you wake up one day and choose to do so he said Islam should be a mercy for mankind we
1:20:59
should be a mercy to to our societies and that's where I think sometimes and I know you know
1:21:05
sometimes people say you shouldn't mix religion with these things but for me Islam is is is one and whole it it it it makes me wonder how do we Muslims understand dawa and how do we understand
1:21:16
the potency of dawa and how do we understand DA's ability to create opportunities from where we do
1:21:22
not think think it exists mam is told by Allah subhana waala not to Run to the Hills or run
1:21:28
to the mountains from Pharaoh he's told to go to the Sea and Allah will deliver a miracle in splitting the sea Allah tells him I will give you an opportunity from where you don't even think an
1:21:37
opportunity can come from the prophet Muhammad sallu alai wasallam he receives only only that
1:21:43
the first part read read in the name of thy Lord he doesn't receive the full Quran but then he goes out you know in the words of hind you know raving with poetry going down in the middle of
1:21:51
meccah he you cannot tell me that he's sees the opportunity in front of him because everything is
1:21:57
wedged against him everything stands against him but he goes in the belief Allah can create that
1:22:02
opportunity and Allah created that opportunity and that's why for me America us uh Canada Australia
1:22:10
Japan Europe and I'll be honest perhaps this is more humiliating for me than anything else and I
1:22:16
think it says more about my lack of understanding than anything else is when Allah says
1:22:28
indeed in this book we tell you the best of stories stories that prior to which you were ignorant of what is Allah saying in these stories in the Quran he's saying Jalan you're
1:22:37
not the first to struggle you're not the first to live in a world where all of this genocide stuff is happening you're not the first to feel pain hardship heartbreak and despair you're not
1:22:46
the first Jalel to stand up and actually say I want to make an effort you're not the first to
1:22:52
think what initiative can I do you're not the the first to try to change the world you're not the first to try to rescue people from Darkness into light you're not the first to go and mobilize and
1:23:01
protest you're not the first to donate you're not the first to go and strive you're not the first
1:23:07
and the reason Allah says this is if you believe you're the first that's when you ask yourself when is the opportunity coming where does it come from what do we do next how do we move the reason
1:23:17
Allah tells we tell the best of stories is yam is thrown into a well and then he's sold into slavery
1:23:23
and then he's put into prison but comes out m is raised in the Palace of pharaoh in a wonderful
1:23:30
status quo and then he defies his his his adopted brother Pharaoh tells him what you're doing is
1:23:36
wrong his brother turns against him and then he suddenly kicked out of his city has to flee to the
1:23:41
Sea and W the lands and then go to Jerusalem but he comes out Victorious at the end of it Noam spends 900 years giving da Jal trying to get Society to change trying to tell them genocide is
1:23:54
wrong trying to tell them it can be better trying to tell them the system can be better 900 years
1:23:59
he's given da Allah delivers him in the end the reason Allah tells you these stories is you're not the first to face off against Republicans and Democrats and starm and macron and Trudeau
1:24:09
and the like but the point of these stories is at the end of every story there is a victory at the
1:24:14
end of the story you win at the end of the story Allah had delivers at the end of the story the
1:24:20
opportunity comes from where you don't expect it but you have to move to get it you have to
1:24:26
keep moving to try to create it you have to use what you have squeeze the levers that you have
1:24:31
press them push test tease poke you have to keep doing it until an opportunity shows itself from
1:24:38
where you don't even expect did do you know when Allah subhana wa tala tells the story of talut of David and Goliath when talut is marching with his army Allah describes his army as one that is ill
1:24:49
disciplined they go to the water they drink from the water when he tells them don't drink from it and they see go Army and it's organized and it's disciplined they say how on Earth are we going
1:24:58
to beat Goliath's army jal's army the wood is not hint that nor is he implied the is not introduced
1:25:06
until the that killed goli Allah delivered it from where you did not expect it and the reason why I
1:25:14
say this is not to run away from your question the reason why I say this is I don't know what's coming next I don't know the scenarios that are coming next I don't know what the battle
1:25:23
that come looks like I don't know what comes next but I don't think that's what defines the victory that's coming what defines is whether we are still willing to move even after these elections whether
1:25:33
we're still willing to get up and give dawa whether we're still willing to get up and preach of a new world order a new system whether we're willing to talk to Matt Kennard and Franchesca
1:25:43
albanesi and these other people that you have here Owen Jones and the like and say to them here is
1:25:48
Justice let's stand for it let's stand for what's right appeal to the F in the hope that Allah will
1:25:54
deliver an opportunity where he sends from the enemy Army to become commander of our own Army
1:26:00
where he sends from the leaders of qur the enemy to join and become our khif where he sends who
1:26:07
comes against the Muslims and sends him within our own ranks to deliver Islam to the rest of the world and Conquer Egypt and Beyond this is what the Muslim should aspire to it's not about what
1:26:17
the situation looks like now it's about what do I have in order to be able to make a change and that's why I argue has been phal in that it mobilized the community and gave them a small
1:26:28
taste of Victory decided the US elections could decide the Canada elections G could decide the
1:26:36
Australia elections not because the Muslims have numbers they don't have the necessary numbers but
1:26:42
the ability of the Muslims to give da in the way IM s w said the ability of the Muslims to speak
1:26:50
to the world in the language of H the language of Truth the language of of Justice resonates
1:26:55
in such a way that you can make 10 million sit out the elections in the US that makes Harris lose you can move society and Franchesca albanesi to defy the whole world and stand as a un rapor
1:27:06
and the Israelis are trying to take it down you could convince the world to shift and create new opportunities that I don't know what they look like now but when they come you will say it
1:27:16
came because we moved look how Allah opened them for us Sam um it's a it's a running conversation
Never forget that Gazans are at the centre of all of this
1:27:21
now between me and you that uh these social media clips that we produce sometimes go viral uh it's
1:27:27
not because of me it's because of our sister AIA who's managed to cut uh some really controversial
1:27:33
let's say or amazing Clips as you know um uh there was that one clip that went out uh uh everywhere
1:27:41
non-muslims picked it up Muslims picked it up big accounts picked it up and I received uh just a
1:27:47
great a deluge of messages uh the day after the election that said that clip changed my mind um
1:27:54
I'm not sure where the question is here except just to ask you I mean how do you feel about that like in a sense you know you are an outsider in in the United States alhamdulillah you came
1:28:04
on my program I'm I'm even more an outsider uh but in a in a small sense maybe maybe in a big
1:28:10
sense uh we managed to or at least you managed to change the public discourse and place Gaza at the
1:28:17
center like explain that that emotion there for me please I I I'll be brutally honest with you
1:28:24
yeah I don't take credit for any of it primarily because I was in Houston Texas and this is where I
1:28:34
realized I wasn't as fully connected as I thought I was so I was in Houston Texas in October and a
1:28:42
doctor asked shikar shuk and said can I have Sam me for dinner at my place I said sure it's better
1:28:50
than staying in a hotel by myself I go in Jal they rolled out a kid in a wheelchair 12 years
1:28:58
old two legs blown off his hand blown off and the the other hand he has two fingers so the doctor
1:29:08
says to me with a straight face today is a day of Celebration I think at my mind what's this lunatic
1:29:13
talking about celebration so he says to me this kid came two months ago from Gazza part of one
1:29:19
of those limited people could come out from Gazza for humanitarian Aid came for treatment he said Samy today he went to the doctor and he finally got feeling back in his two fingers which is why
1:29:29
he's celebrating he holds his smartphone here and he's happy that he can play with his two fingers
1:29:34
I don't know what to say to a boy like that but it was the day after the M Hassan video where he came and said you know the who's this samiam guy took on and I looked at the boy and I and I was like
1:29:45
what happened he's bit you know grumpy you know I can him so his mother's telling the story that he
1:29:51
had gone out he was starving I think for seven days days so he'd gone out with his cousins and
1:29:58
he found what looked like a tuna can he opened the tuna can and Kaboom it blew up his legs it
1:30:04
blew up his hand the other and killed some of the kids around him and I was my immedate reaction was
1:30:12
this is too real for me I was in fome Sacramento I've never seen this before I walked in a Masid
1:30:22
there's a kid 12 fed years old no left arm no left leg he walks across the Masjid banking on
1:30:29
on one arm and and one leg like that another kid come he's missing an arm over here towards the
1:30:34
latter part there were I was being introduced to more and more kids and the people roll them out and say yeah like you know they want to sit with you they want to talk to you they saw some
1:30:42
of your videos and me was like this is too this is too real for me the reason why I say this no
1:30:50
one should ever forget who's at the center of the story the ones who at the center of the story are
1:30:56
the ones who are still being bombed today they're still being slaughtered today they're still being
1:31:03
starved today because some random group of people from the West believe this to be some
1:31:08
sort of home of theirs they're being massacred they're being bonded into Oblivion they're
1:31:13
being ethnically cleansed their homes are being demolished they are the center of the story the
1:31:18
reason that Harris was punished was not because of some political plays because she get genous
1:31:24
side Biden did genocide Biden slaughtered 240,000 Palestinians Biden assert the whole International
1:31:33
order to make sure those kids could be killed Biden BW off the lenss of that kid then send
1:31:40
Clinton to Michigan to tell them that he deserves it Biden went and told the I Karim Khan I'm going
1:31:47
to investigate you for sexual abuse why because you dared to go and issue an arrest warrant for
1:31:53
the one who blew up the legs of that kid Janelle when you see it's different when you see it with
1:31:58
your own eyes it's different that kid knows with a feeling of running he was running six months ago
1:32:03
that kid knows the feeling of having two hands he can't feel it no more that kid is there sitting in
1:32:08
Houston Texas wondering what on Earth am I doing here I was in with my family why did I get bummed in the first place they are the center of the story there's a horrible Injustice taking place
1:32:19
B was punished because he gave unfed access to weapons for them B was punished because he said
1:32:24
to hell would the Muslims who were angry about it Biden said my America supports genocide that's why
1:32:30
he lost that's why he lost this election why would you as a Muslim try to argue something
1:32:36
different when the whole world is saying he lost ber says he lost because of says he lost because
1:32:43
of the Hill says was the main reason why he lost CNN says that why would you as a Muslim sit in
1:32:50
your WhatsApp groups and sit in your circles and try to argue because the was not a deciding factor
1:32:56
why do you not believe what they believe why does the non-muslim believe in the power of Allah more
1:33:01
than you do why do they believe in the power of Da more than you do why is it when Allah's power
1:33:06
is Manifest and some justice is served you still want to deny it and that's why when you pose the
1:33:13
question like that I'm humiliated J all we can do is go and talk to people and tell them please when
1:33:20
they said to me I was desperate to go home they said to me said what's wrong with you I said toas I have to beg my community to punish genocide I have to beg them I have to beg them get I
1:33:32
said almost said to my I said I dare you look and that kid with no legs and tell him there isma in
1:33:38
rewarding his kill go I dare you anybody who voted Harris I dare you look at that kid who had his
1:33:45
legs blown off for no reason Harris could not even meet with Palestinian families she would not even
1:33:51
go for look that kid in the eye when you see in it's different it's easy what we're here there's
1:33:56
no one here from Palestine here it's it's when you see it's different and look him in the eye and
1:34:02
tell him there is hikma because my comfort might be compromised if I uphold Justice for you it was
1:34:10
different Jen I came home I said what kind of life is this we're sitting here with two microphones
1:34:17
trying to come up with political analysis and scenarios to convince people to do what J to move
1:34:24
to convince them to move we have to convince them to move Jan that's what the state is we have to
1:34:32
convince them to move because if we do not they will not that's the state so when you say s it's
1:34:38
not s it's the fact that 12 months in it took me 12 months to find some sort of chain of words that
1:34:46
could move people it took me 12 months to do so I couldn't do it before I didn't have the eloquence
1:34:52
to do it before and I don't know how to stop this genocide I'm trying to poke and PR let's try and
1:34:59
punish the Democrats let's try and punish Harris Let's see what we do with this battle with Trump
1:35:05
let's see what happens in Canada let's see what happens in Australia just raise your voice say me but what does it look like what does the world look like what I don't know Li I don't know but
1:35:15
you have to move and do something don't sit and do nothing that K didn't deserve it didn't deserve to
1:35:21
have his legs blown up well what I saw it I saw my kid Salma I saw my kid can you imagine if your kid
1:35:30
two of years old looking for food starving and opens in Kaboom for why why and then you look
1:35:37
in the US and you look in the world and hesitant to do something for you why it it's such a cruel
1:35:43
world it's such an ugly world but it's not ugly because of the evil it is ugly because the people
1:35:50
who should be moving are still debating whether they should move and that's why I'm not here to
1:35:55
berate my community I'm here because you touch the nerve it's not it's not the clipse it's not
1:36:01
talking it's not it's not trying to mobilize it's it's yeah move and do something for life for every
1:36:08
second you are quiet for every time you don't move evil thrives this is a battle of good versus evil
1:36:15
this is about the heart of mankind this is the battle you are fighting and the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam will sent as a Mercy to Mankind and we will be that Mercy we will be that Merc
1:36:23
to America I believe in their hearts I believe their hearts can be shifted I believe the hearts in the UK can be shifted I believe the hearts in Canada can be shifted I believe in Australia can
1:36:32
be shifted I believe why because Allah is the one who flips the hearts Allah is the one who is all powerful Allah is the one who is in control Allah is the one who decides the fate and Allah will
1:36:42
decide Our Fate too Allah gave us the opportunity to do good let's take it otherwise he might take
1:36:47
it away from us and give it to somebody else and condemn us to humiliation let's just move and do something just for the sake of Justice and this is why and I finish on this point my dad one day
1:36:56
called me and he rebuked me that he said to me apologies can I have a tissue please let's break for tissue yeah he he called me once my father called me once after I gave a talk in America and
1:37:06
I remember he said to me Sami I see you in America painting all these political scenarios and yes
1:37:13
some of them are very good and yes I understand why you want to do it but son never forget never
1:37:19
forget never forget he gave in the context I'll give you the context just give me just two minutes I promise I'll be quick on this point I had told the story of the Pledge OFA when an go
1:37:29
to the prophet and say we're willing to support you after 30 years and Abbas says to them wait
1:37:35
on this path there is struggle if you if you raise your voice you will be persecuted if you stand with him all of Arabia will stand against you if you're not ready for that struggle don't
1:37:44
give him a false promise and they say yeah abas we're ready so my father calls me and he tells me Samy I heard you tell the story but you didn't finish it I said Baba what do you mean he said
1:37:56
what did the ansal ask the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam afterwards and I said to him Baba I don't understand I said you know they said we're willing to struggle with
1:38:04
you and because yes I understood the struggle of a struggle and struggle but certainly that's not the point of the story the point of the story is what they asked next I told him Baba what did they
1:38:14
ask I forgotten suddenly he said they asked him what's our reward and he tells him their reward is Al Jenna son I know you're trying to entice people by painting political scenarios some of
1:38:25
which might come true some might not for Allah is the one who knows the unknown but son remember the P that ansar made with Al wasallam it will stand for what's right Allah gives you Jenna do what's
The reward for our activism is Jannah – centre this
1:38:37
right Allah gives you Jenna stand and move and Allah will give you Jenna it was a reward in
1:38:43
the Hereafter and they said that is sufficient for us and when I thought about it later on I
1:38:49
started thinking and I said hang on a second when you think about it ansar Anar in the B of bad when
1:38:54
the qur came to defeat the prophet wasallam to try to beat the prophet wasallam and could have said what dragged us into this personal beef between mammam and his family they could have said that
1:39:03
they didn't the prophet marches out and says to them advise me and says as if you are asking us
1:39:11
if we're willing to continue with you and he says and if I am and says we gave you the pa the PA of
1:39:16
what Jalan the P of standing for what's right in exchange for Jenna let's go in is killed and so
1:39:24
are leaders of an they could have said why are we losing our leaders for a family beef between the
1:39:29
prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and the people of qur they did the when they asked are you still on the pack they said the promise was we struggle for Jenna that pack still stands in KH when they
1:39:39
digging the trench they could have said Jan they could have said he's brought all of the tribes of Arabia at our doorstep and he doesn't even have a plan except to dig a trench they didn't they said
1:39:49
what's our reward Jenna we keep going H they said now he's signing a PCT with them for 10 years he
1:39:55
won't even go and do in the in in the Haram itself why are we fighting for they didn't they said does our PCT still stand struggle for you for Jenna he said yes they continue when he enters mecah
1:40:06
and he divides the spoil the ansar are Whispering between themselves and they say look how he treats his family and Muhammad realizes that they're Whispering so he gathers them and he says Anar
1:40:16
gather before me if you had said to me oh ansar that yeah Muhammad you came to us with nothing and
1:40:22
we gave you everything we gave you the support we gave you the donations and the money you would be
1:40:27
correct they're too embarrassed to say anything then the prophet say if you had said to me that
1:40:32
yeah Muhammad you came to us a refugee a refugee running from the other tribes of Arabia and we
1:40:38
give you security when no one would give it to you you would not be mistaken they're too embarrassed
1:40:43
to say anything he said how do you feel then that I divide the spoils here between them but you go home with the prophet of Allah and they say allahar with this pack when he died s wasam they
1:40:55
could have said yeah we gave him the city we gave him the Army we gave him what he needed it's our
1:41:01
turn to be Khalifa No they agreed to Abu Bakr when Abu Bak who dies they could have said Jal that
1:41:06
what's our reward in the D I want to lead thinking Muslim now Jal resign it's my turn to lead it I
1:41:11
I I have as much right over here you know I also got views for you over here I gave you support I
1:41:16
should Etc they didn't say that they said go ahead and then after and then after Ali and these were
1:41:23
people when they entered Medina they split their wealth into two to share it they weren't like us we put refugees in tents and we tell them when are you going home we put refugees in
1:41:32
tents and we tell them how much is the UN giving they didn't give me money today I'm not giving you money they didn't treat refugees the way that we treat them today they treated them with honor
1:41:41
and integrity and dignity For What and this is what my father said Samy do not go to an umah
1:41:47
on the basis that you want to entice them with dun restore The pact between the prophet and the ansar
1:41:56
in which do what is right not because I can explain to you what the opportunity is next not
1:42:03
because I can make a viral video not because I can explain the scenario what comes next not because I
1:42:08
know what comes next I don't but do what's right because it's right and because Allah will give
1:42:14
us Jenna if we do what is right and that is how you change the world move because it's the right
1:42:19
thing to do don't move because you're worried what Trump Or democrats will do move because Allah gave you a promise and Allah will always fulfill his promise Sam mean we're near in the
1:42:27
end now of of our conversation to alhamdulillah it's been really really U informative um I want
1:42:34
to stand back a little bit and just talk about politics in general and um uh you link that the
1:42:42
call to Islam and politics and you combine the two uh and um I think until now it's fair to say
1:42:50
at least in the you know alhamdulillah lots of people do this but at least in public conscience that has not really uh been too closely connected to politics um not only are you
Connecting Dawah to politics
1:43:01
connecting that word to politics the call to Islam to politics but also it seems to me that and and I
1:43:07
can see that by the number of people who stay to the very end of these videos I of course normally when you have a political analysis session people drop off after 10 minutes and you know the people
1:43:16
stay and people want to understand and want to listen um just the other day I remember I was going into my local Meat Shop you know buying some meat and the guy at the counter said I know
1:43:26
you from somewhere didn't you interview that guy who talks about politics right so you know I'm not
1:43:31
saying you know alhamdulillah you know this person is a you know is a good Muslim but of course you know he may not have ordinarily been someone who followed politics so where or you are or at least
1:43:42
the conversation is permeating throughout Muslim Community um how important is politics to da
1:43:53
and I suppose to be blunt in a secular World um and you touched upon it in the last in the last
1:44:00
answer but secular world like how much does that and politics matter when it comes to the greater
1:44:07
scheme of things of jna like are there are we going to go to jna because we're political
1:44:13
analysts and a got great political astuteness I think that one of the reasons why da in modern
1:44:23
is not typically associated with politics it's not because da is not politics it's because
1:44:30
once you open the other eye and I saw it from a deic perspective once you open the other eye da
1:44:36
is frightening in its potential it's frightening in its capacity for change what did the prophet
1:44:42
Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam do in qur he didn't have an army he didn't have wealth he went and he preached to people told them they need to change their ways their behaviors their etiquette
1:44:51
the way they do business the way they treat their women the way they form their families the way they interact with one another and all of a sudden is joining his ranks is joining his ranks
1:45:02
the sons of the leaders of the elites are joining his ranks the slaves are joining his ranks and they're being free like the shepherds are joining his ranks whoever hears his message is joining
1:45:12
his ranks but joining his ranks in a way where when the force of society is being brought down
1:45:19
upon those who joined his message they refuse to abandon his message even by threat of force they
1:45:25
hold on to it because now they've internalized something much greater than anything the dun can
1:45:31
provide all that the Dunya can threaten them with and that is the problem not the problem but this
1:45:36
is the issue that people take when it comes to talking about da in terms of talking about it politically it is that propensity for change ultimately leads to a very frightening word which
1:45:47
is called Revolution which is what the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam did Revolution
1:45:53
not in terms of subjugating a people revolution in completely altering the social and political Norms
1:46:00
of a community in a way that is different from that upon which it was before the ability to turn
1:46:07
around and tell people that selling cigarettes and alcohol to each other harm Society we don't
1:46:13
want it that when you're teaching transgender LGBT the harm it does to our kids we don't want
1:46:18
it when you argue it to people and the like when you tell them that kindness to your neighbor when
1:46:23
you're organizing initiatives to gather people to bring the bonds closer when you've got people designated to go and heal feuds between family members because you fear how it might break the
1:46:33
fabric of society when you're starting to forbid what is evil and enjoying what is good that da
1:46:39
ultimately leads to Revolution why it's not just the daa itself it's that Allah has put a system in
1:46:45
everybody's heart Muslim and nonl which is the F and that F only resonates with dawa it only
1:46:51
resonates with truth it does not resonate with evil if you say something that is evil and spend
1:46:57
Millions promoting it it cannot move the heart or win the heart but if H is conveyed even without a
1:47:03
million doll propaganda machine that hak will win the heart and win that rest that's the way
1:47:09
that Allah subhana wa tala has created that and I think that with every da and and it's funny not
1:47:14
funny I should be wory of my words I was on the train coming here and often when I'm particularly
1:47:20
you know nervous or the like even though somebody said doesn't look it but when I'm nervous or the like I open Muhammad ID's book in the hope of gaining some sort of wisdom from it or the like
1:47:28
and I opened the page where he is talking about when Muhammad sallallah alaihi wasallam received
1:47:34
the from jel the Revelation he went down and he was very you know very scared and the like and he
1:47:40
told cover me cover me soad says two things she says one Allah will never humiliate you because
1:47:47
you do good whatever happens to you Allah will not abandon you because you do good move prove and do
1:47:53
action with what is good Allah will not humiliate you even if you feel like you are by your people
1:47:58
Allah will not humiliate you they try to humiliate him by saying he has no Sons Allah sent down an A and then says go to her uncle when he says he says something profound he says oh what
1:48:15
you have received is the Divine message from J from Gabriel himself would that I were young and with you when your people start to persecute you he says why would my people
1:48:24
start to persecute me he says nobody comes with the message of Truth except that those who are the ilal Society come to persecute them that's the terrifying thing about dawa
1:48:34
it is not that people believe it is wrong it is not that people deny its potency it is that the
1:48:39
path of dawa the path of struggle the path of what is right when you read those stories in
1:48:46
the Quran let's be brutally honest they are frightening stories when you read them with
1:48:51
two eyes open the S is a terrifying book when you read it with two eyes open you read about
1:48:57
yfam thrown in a well sold into slavery thrown into prison that's not the life I want to live
1:49:03
you read about who resonate like the people of Bosnia and when they were gathered by madich and
1:49:10
the serbs and told give up your Islam they were told we because of you because you're Muslims like it's one of the shortest that we all learn are told by the ruler give up your dean and we
1:49:27
won't kill you and they know what's coming next J this isn't if or maybe Harris or Trump they know
1:49:33
what's coming next if they give up the dean they are safe if they don't give up the dean they know they they want to be thrown into the pits they choose to hold the dean they're thrown in the pits
1:49:43
and they are genocided like the people of shanit but this is where I think it becomes a matter of perspective and I and and I try to finish just on this anecdote I was in uh my wife and I we
1:49:53
we we take groups on Hal travel guide to these to these places we had this group they came from New York to Bosnia in the summer we took them to Sera Memorial I'm standing next to alir alir pich one
1:50:03
of our our guides over there so I'm I'm standing and I'm watching the group they clearly moved by the 8,000 tombstones said is not an easy site to visit they seen the 8,000 tombstones and alir is
1:50:14
standing next to me while the group are going out to the graves and I say to alir alir Subhan Allah
1:50:19
cuz I had the group the week before I told them to do this twice in two weeks I hate coming here
1:50:25
he said to me I know how you feel I said W to to realize what happened here where we're standing the massacre of the thousands of Muslim men and boys for no reason than they were Muslim by the
1:50:36
madich and the and the Serbian nationalist eth nationalist Al says to me look at the perspective
1:50:42
Al says to me but you know brother I used to feel like that but now I feel jealous what do you mean
1:50:49
you feel jealous he said think about it brother all they had to do was give up and they were
1:50:56
surrounded like and they had you know they knew it was the finality they chose to hold on to it
1:51:04
so right now they ski day of judgment they're in Jenna happy with what Allah gave them while me and you are stuck here trying to figure out a way just to keep away from Hellfire perspective and that's
1:51:14
the reason why da is so frightening I'm not saying that is going to result in people getting killed that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying is what comes with da the struggle that comes with dawa
1:51:22
is something nobody is assured that they will be able to persevere and push through because
1:51:27
even the prophets and this is the point that I was making even the prophets spent 900 years of
1:51:33
said I've called my people day and night and every time I call they run away from
1:51:39
me if only I had power or powerful Ally to resist you they say things the prophets that
1:51:48
we are saying today if only I had power I keep calling that nothing changing they say things
1:51:54
but this is where the pa of Jenna comes are you doing it because you believe you are entitled to
1:52:00
the outcome or are you truly the traveler that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam described in the Hadith in this dun where you are simply passing by and prodding and pushing and upholding
1:52:11
what is right for your alloted time in this dun until you return to Allah subhah wa ta'ala
1:52:17
and then Allah will hold you to account not for the outcomes but for your deeds and I'll finish just on on on on on this point here just there is a Bosnian brother in in in who's with us on
1:52:28
on the groups his uh his name is Dino one of the guides so we had a group from New York they were there they were with him so they asked Dino and this is the point about perspective they said to
1:52:36
him Dino how do you reconcile the fact that your family members were killed by you know
1:52:43
these SS and the like but how do you reconcile that Justice was not fully delivered and Dino says to him without skipping a beat Dino says I imagine that one day when I'm in Jenna inah
1:52:52
I'll ask Allah to show me the movie from the beginning to the end ask him to show me what happened and I'll show to the beginning to the end I didn't think anything of it I I walked away
1:53:01
and then one of the brothers from New Jersey said to me Sammy did you hear that and I said what and
1:53:06
he said did you see the certainty with which he spoke of Jenna the certainty with which he spoke
1:53:12
of Allah's Justice and the certainty that he would be satisfied with Allah's Justice even if he's not
1:53:19
alive to see it because Allah would deliver the best of justice and it made me realize that this
1:53:25
is the point when I say these subconscious things that lurk in your heart but you don't realize can everybody hold their hand to the heart and say I would be satisfied with the same and this is
1:53:35
Dino who went through war and felt that pressure and came out with those conclusions and that's why I wonder sometimes how do we arrive to these perspectives it's one thing to have knowledge
1:53:45
it's another thing to have wisdom it's one thing to know everything that's written in the world it's another thing to manifest it and that's why I think for those non-muslims who are watching
1:53:52
cuz I realize you have a large Muslim audience it's like when gandal says the world is not in your books the world is out there because when you go out there you realize that dawa is inherently
1:54:02
social political economic because dawa is human and we are humans with hearts and with f and I
1:54:09
think as long as that is the case and as long as Allah is there upon High I have faith in humanity
1:54:15
I have faith that people can be guided from Darkness into light because it is that faith that I believe will help to ensure that I myself die as a Muslim because I appreciate that to be
1:54:25
Muslim is not a right granted to me it is a gift that Allah gave and when Allah gives you a gift
1:54:31
you show gratitude and the way you show gratitude is by giving aan to the world and give the da and
1:54:37
say I have something beautiful here you should have it too and you should love the people the
1:54:43
way you want them to love you if you are misguided you would want someone to love you so much that
1:54:48
they would for pull you out of Janam even if it that's how you'd want people to do for you do you
1:54:54
have the same sentiment to your Society do you have the same sentiment towards your community do you truly see yourself as a mercy desperately trying to rescue people from the Hellfire or do
1:55:03
you believe yourself almost like a Zionist that you are a chosen people while everybody else is desent to be condemned for every moment we have breath on this Earth we are ambassadors for the
Is politics so ingrained within Sami that he will carry on in Jannah?
1:55:12
deed we are ambassadors for Islam we take every opportunity that's available to us and Trump would
1:55:17
present a different battle and we will push through that battle we won the battle against the Democrats when supported genocide Trump might represent a new battle and we keep moving we keep
1:55:26
moving until Allah decides that everything should go back to him and at least at least inshallah
1:55:32
maybe we look at Allah if maybe before Allah would stand before him and would say Allah I
1:55:38
tried I tried I tried and please make it heavy on my scales inshah so I should build on one question
1:55:44
one last question for you um if we've got to be so certain if we should be so certain about J and
1:55:49
Allah's Mercy if Allah subh gives me mercy and forgives me and um allows me to enter jna and
1:55:56
I come to see you Sami inshallah tal will you be discussing will you be in a meeting with all of
1:56:04
the future political analysts or will you give up that's for because of J and you would be I don't
1:56:10
know a farmer or or someone just relaxing like where is politics so ingrained within you that
1:56:16
even in jna you'll meet the future politicians and political analysts between now and and um and
1:56:24
uh and just have constant conversations with them who knows maybe you have a thinking Muslim podcast there as well you know narrating everything that happened afterwards but you know I I think I have
1:56:34
when I was growing up I only ever imagined Janam and how to avoid it yeah but I think the more that
1:56:41
I see people move with new initiatives the more I see Ordinary People striving to make an impact the
1:56:48
more I saw people when you tell them that you know at least raise the voice on that algorithm and you see in his eyes or her eyes they believe they don't have the power they want but the suddenly
1:56:59
in their eyes they look you say wait so this is power like I I can make a difference if I do this and you see the rush with which they do it I've my faith in humanity is genuinely restored I
1:57:11
truly believe that people want to do good things and that's why I think when when you invite me to thinking Muslim and the like and I'm grateful the opportunity I see is you ask you know how do
1:57:19
you see you know would you be discussing politics I think it's more here are avenues that I think
1:57:25
work what Avenues do you think work here's how I see the world show me how you see it and let's
1:57:32
see where it merges because it's like for example that website words of justice.org where he set up
1:57:38
you know that AI database that knows the history of festine and then you know it it generates the tweaks for you in case you're not eloquent to do so I knew that you know perhaps we should educate
1:57:49
people to respond I didn't know you could use AI you know I had an idea I had one perception
1:57:54
of it he had another and he produced something we all build off the backs of each other those
We all build on the backs of each other
1:58:00
abandoned Harris those you know Unity lab those that that like thinking Muslim what I found what
1:58:06
restored my faith was you know you were mentioning you know semi by the clip it wasn't me it was we
1:58:11
all work together we all moved together it was wonderful to see it it was wonderful to go from
1:58:16
Community to community and have people say we want to do something here what the powers that we have
1:58:22
is this sufficient we want to move forward and it was wonderful to see the um move almost as
1:58:27
one body it was wonderful to see them move with a Unity of purpose and that's why I think GZA saved
1:58:33
us I think the fact that GZA made such an impact on the US elections shows when the community moves
1:58:38
they can have an impact and that's why I made the point earlier when I said that the question is not what happens next the question is now that we realize in 11 months you can move and have this
Imagine the impact we have if we continue moving
1:58:48
sort of impact imagine what impact you could have in 5 years if you move with the same tenacity and
1:58:53
the same Vigor don't go home now don't sit at home now just keep moving keep pushing those
1:58:59
ideas the community is moving and the mentality is Shifting and the perspective is changing and
1:59:05
maybe when historians write they will write this was the turning point because the um finally woke up Sami um so Australia and Canada next and we're in contact with the groups in Australia it seems
1:59:17
that Canada still uh haven't yet at least from my side I haven't yet come across a coherent
1:59:23
organizing body and election so it' be wonderful to speak to Muslims in Canada to see if we can set something up I don't know if you know any better but thank you very much for for your time today
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