Ep 222. - Australia Elections: Paying a Price for Supporting Genocide with Senator Fatima Payman
The Australian government has announced a general election, including elections to its lower house. Its Labour government has grown tired in office and, particularly important for Muslims, has colluded to enable a genocide in Gaza. In both the UK and America, Muslim and conscientious voices worked together to hold the government to account for what has been the worst crime in decades. Will Australia’s Muslim community build upon its newfound resilience and unity and work with allies to punish those responsible for Gaza at the ballot box.
Today, we have a very special guest. Senator Fatima Payman is a Senator in the Australian upper house for Western Australia. In June 2024, she was the first in her party since 1988 to cross the floor over a vote on Palestine’s statehood. By July, she resigned over the government’s policy on genocide—having been suspended by PM Anthony Albanese. Although Fatima is not up for re-election this time, these coming elections may be another extremely important test for Muslims in the West and their commitment to their ummah and justice.
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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
0:00
i was labor's post a child I knew that this would be the beginning of a very long journey Fatima
0:08
just think about in a few years time you could potentially be a minister I knew what my mission
0:13
was Deep down I knew that there was something more I could do and that was go against party
0:19
lines They didn't want my voice to be heard and you're there to serve the people not your party But just because Labour was in government and the genocide took place under their noses and
0:30
they didn't do anything about it shut up Do as I'm told and blend into the background of the Labor
0:36
Party The Australian government has announced a general election Its Labor government has grown
0:45
tired in office and particularly important for Muslims has colluded to enable a genocide in Gaza
0:51
In both the UK and America Muslims and conscientious voters work together to hold
0:56
the government to account for what has been the worst crime in decades Will Australia's Muslim
1:02
community build upon its newfound resilience and unity and work with allies to punish those
1:08
responsible for Gaza at the ballot box Today we have a very special guest Senator Fatima Payman
1:14
is a senator in the Australian Upper House for Western Australia In June 2024 she was the first
1:21
in her party since 1998 to cross the floor over a vote on Palestine statehood By July she resigned
1:29
over the government's policy on genocide having been suspended by Prime Minister Anthony Obenezi
1:35
Although Fatima is not up for reelection this time these coming elections may be another extremely important test for Muslims in the West and their commitment to their
1:44
ummah and commitment to justice Senator Fatima Pman asalam allaykumah and welcome to the thinking
1:51
muslim salam Thank you so much for having me Well it's wonderful to have you with us and I
1:57
know that um you're in the midst of a general election there You've got what 25 days left
2:02
uh at the time of speaking uh before your election uh takes place And um it's been
2:09
a frenetic time I suppose for for you and and many of the pro Palestinian candidates
2:15
uh in uh Australia Now I want to really understand this past 161 17 months Um what
2:23
um you faced as a as a candidate that took a stand on on on uh on Palestine uh but also
2:31
um how you feel feel that uh the Muslim vote let's say or uh the pro Palestine vote will fare in this
2:38
coming election but can I start with that day in June when you cross the floor with the Greens
Crossing the floor
2:46
um to vote against your party or for for a motion that your party was against a prop
2:51
Palestine motion that your party was against I think it was the first time since the late 80s that someone in your in your previous party in the Labour party uh crossed the floor Just tell me
3:02
about that day please It was a very nerve-wracking day I woke up went into the Senate as per normal
3:10
uh and there were talks uh anticipation of what is Fatima Payment going to do we had just come from
3:18
um a few weeks off uh the Senate proceedings Uh so everyone was I mean rumor was that I may um cross
3:29
the floor uh and and the pressure was mounting from both sides Uh I had colleagues who would you
3:37
know the pseudo empathy they would show They would ask me out for a coffee or they would take me for
3:44
a walk and say things like "Fatima just think about in a few years time you could potentially
3:51
be a minister and you would have so much power to do so much more um and continue representing the
3:58
community So you know don't don't fall for the green stunt They're trying to wedge us They're
4:06
trying to bring division." Um to which I would go back and say but it's in our party platform like
4:14
this the Palestinian uh statethood and recognizing that statehood is something that we've got in our
4:21
party platform Like I was still grappling with the fact that the caucus was making decisions that
4:29
did not reflect what your rank and file members wanted Um and subhan Allah it was this constant
4:35
back and forth And I remember um the whip in the Senate so the Labour whip coming to my office and
4:43
saying "What decision have you made are you are you going to cross?" Because our suggestion is
4:49
for you to abstain Like you know you don't have to come to the Senate Chamber when this votes
4:54
happening Just just don't rock up you know and that's okay You won't get in trouble And I I think
5:02
they were struggling to understand that this was a matter of principle and a matter of conscience
5:08
Um and I remember telling them look this is a decision that's beyond me and I'm seeking
5:13
God's guidance Um which later on you would have seen made the headlines Um and newspaper articles
5:20
came out to say "Oh Senator Payman's waiting for God's guidance or she's bringing sectarianism into
5:27
politics." Um but yes subhan Allah like as the votes were happening um and to your Australian
5:35
viewers they may have seen that moment there were a lot of votes and amendments that were taking
5:40
place And as somebody who was completely new to the procedural side of the Senate um because when
5:52
you're part of a party you enter the chamber and you just follow your whip the whip tells you sit
5:58
on one side or sit on the other side Uh you do as you're told So you're not actually exercising that
6:03
autonomy to figure out okay what's really going on what are the different steps to get to voting for
6:10
a motion um and so I was sat in the advisor's box next to David PCO's chief of staff Fiona and she
6:22
was sort of assuring me She's like "Do you know what you're doing in terms of what decision you're making how you feeling it's okay Do you want David to walk with you?" Like like and and I like it's
6:34
this moment of feeling absolutely out of body experience where I knew my miss I knew what my
6:43
mission was and I wasn't going to allow anybody to come in between me and that mission Um and subhan
6:50
Allah when the question was put um should the Senate recognize the state of Palestine it was a
6:57
no-brainer But it was my heart was literally in my throat I knew that this would be the beginning um
7:07
of a very long journey uh that I have no blueprint or road map for but I trust Allah to guide me
7:17
through it Um and yeah subhan Allah taking every step to cross the floor and hearing the gasps and
7:27
and the whispers and "Oh my god she really did it." Like oh Um from from my colleagues on the
7:35
other side um there was something empowering about it but also just the unknown We're always afraid
7:43
of what's to come afterwards So subhan Allah Um the best decision of my life and definitely no
Donate to Baitulmaal
7:51
regrets On behalf of Bon Foundation we are pleased to welcome you all to this
8:10
blessed communal ear that brings us together today We wish you a pleasantar and an evening filled with joy and happiness
8:50
I remember in in in June we were in the midst of a general election here and uh we heard the story
Accusations and pressure faced
8:56
of uh uh of your of you crossing the floor and it was really empowering for us Muslim and I think we
9:02
uh we felt uh a certain sort of connection with you because of um uh just how strongly the Muslim
9:10
community in Britain were feeling about uh Palestine and and and our Labor politicians
9:16
I mean we have you know our Labor party here uh very many if not most of the Muslims in the Labor
9:23
party were very reticent to to even talk about Palestine uh or make a comment about Palestine Now
9:30
I know before that day uh you were accused by some members of the Muslim community maybe uncharitably
9:38
uh for not talking up for Palestine and and there were lots of accusations um against you
9:44
as a as a p as a member of the Labour party and someone who had uh obeyed the whip for such a
9:49
long time I mean just tell me about some of the pressures you faced uh leading up to that June
9:55
vote pressure was insane I think from November 23 onwards um the community had expectations I mean
10:05
I'm not the first Muslim politician in Australian federal parliament but I was visibly Muslim and I
10:14
think that increased the expectation of the community and the broader Australian society
10:20
because I mean we saw the student encampments as well It was our young students and being the
10:25
youngest parliamentarian being a visibly Muslim woman I think there were various cohorts of our
10:31
society looking to me saying "Why aren't you doing more why aren't you pushing the Labour Party?" as as if I could singlehandedly change the entire party uh or when I say party the
10:44
entire caucus's perspective and decisions Um I think people did not completely understand the
10:53
mechanisms and what took place behind closed doors and I kind I don't blame them Uh but I think the
11:00
pressure not just on me but on my husband uh on my family um people attacking my siblings online
11:10
uh people bullying my little cousins at school um just because they shared the same surname Um it
11:19
was very vitriolic at times where it felt like you know damned if you do damned if you don't Um and
11:29
I I had been thus the only Labour MP or senator who had been so vocal like I had attended rallies
11:37
Yes I was absolutely bered Um and people would shame me for being part of the Labor Party or the
11:48
or my leadership back then that weren't taking strong action Um and I had to endure all that
11:55
I had to just bear the brunt I had to face it and say "I know you're mad I know you're upset I know
12:02
you're frustrated I'm doing my best as one person but I need you to keep pushing Um and I'll try to
12:11
explain and say "Guys I'm trying to do everything within my capacity to push internally." Um but it
12:18
it just felt like it was never enough And it wasn't until the migraine attack started I
12:25
was put on blood pressure medication after three hospitalizations that I was like like what am I
12:32
trying to fight here because deep down I knew that there was something more I could do and that was
12:38
go against party lines I didn't have to tow the line Yes it could mean my expulsion It could mean
12:45
the party would kick me out and I'll be ostracized But is that the cost I'm willing or the price I'm
12:54
willing to pay um is that something that I will um take on my shoulders and say you know what like if
13:04
if it comes down to principles I'm willing to pay the price and and um you know go against my party
13:13
lines but it was until then I'd exhausted every everything whether it was talking to Penny Wong
13:19
our foreign minister whether it was um begging my caucus So my left caucus I was in the left faction
13:28
of the Labour Party Um and telling them things like "Look if you don't see the human cost and the
13:34
human tragedy of all this at least see the fact that we're bleeding votes Members are leaving our
13:39
party in droves." Like and this is no longer just a Muslim issue Like we are getting broader support
13:46
from a massive cross-section of society Like we need to wake up We've got elections coming up
13:54
And they would tell me things like "We won't allow the community whatever that meant to blackmail us
14:02
You know we know that when the time comes uh to it they will forgive and forget." And it's almost
14:08
like this was this was a tried method like they knew um exactly what to expect that the community
14:17
was so predictable and it's happened so many times before that they have gotten away with literally
14:24
murder or supporting murder Um and we have just fallen back to the Labor Party because of the
14:33
whole fear campaign of oh it's the lesser of two evils or um you know you you can't risk going
14:41
backwards and it will be far worse for us to have a liberal government and and really impressing on
14:48
people's fear of the other side Um even though it's like the Labour Party you've literally done
14:56
what Dustin wants Like you've you're far more closer to the Liberals than you have ever been
15:03
in in various positions not just Palestine I think our immigration policies our um offshore detention
15:13
policies uh the way we've handled ourselves in foreign affairs matters like um even domestically
15:21
like our housing policy and environment policy isn't as strong as Labor members would like to
15:28
see Labor push for Now you mentioned um in a in a speech I think it was that you turned from being
Labour’s Poster child?
15:35
a poster child to a Machavelian figure because of your position on Palestine I mean what did
15:42
you mean by this so I was Labour's poster child in a sense that I ticked many boxes for them I
15:48
was young I was born overseas I was visibly I'm visibly Muslim Um I am a woman Um and all these
16:00
all these boxes that I ticked they they actually paraded me with pride They would take me uh and
16:07
send me over to different conferences uh various delegations overseas from Rwanda to Bahrain
16:15
Indonesia Malaysia South Korea just to show the world look at what we've elected look who's part
16:23
of our government Um but the way I put it is they had given me a seat but they didn't give me a mic
16:31
They didn't want my voice to be heard They didn't want a different perspective to be put on the
16:37
table As long as I sounded like them but looked different to have a broader appeal to communities
16:44
that they felt disengaged from uh they would have my back and they would support me Um but the
16:52
moment I choose my right to exercise you know my autonomy and agency in thinking for myself and and
17:03
fighting for a cause that was very important to me and that's justice for not just the Palestinians
17:09
but every other race and and nationality and um people out there Whether it's our first
17:18
nations people here in Australia whether it's our immigrant populations whether it's your average
17:24
every everyday average Joe on the streets like justice for all needs to be upheld And I I just I
17:31
was shocked that that wasn't something the Labour Party um you know it was just something that they
17:37
would love to put in their platform but not actually when it came to practice they would um
17:42
just discard it But in that moment when I turned from their poster child to this Machavevelian
17:51
um evil plotter who was going to bring down the Labour Party or deliberately made these decisions
17:57
to undermine the Labour Party um and they started backgrounding journalists and bringing my faith
18:05
into this and making it sound like you know I am going to bring Sharia law and I'm just this evil
18:14
person that should be apprehended and and just uh cast out Um that's when I realized and I've
18:23
been going around telling people especially our Muslim brothers and sisters who are still putting
18:29
their hand up for the major parties Labour and Liberal I mean they may be good people inherently but how do you justify being part of a party that turned its back on the very essence
18:42
of what it means to uphold human rights you know equally like we literally if we did not have the
18:49
example of Ukraine a few years earlier we would not have been able to compare and say you know
18:56
what same situation except one side you're you're siding with the perpetrator instead of the victims
19:04
um because of this so-called allyship And it's it's it's put Labour in a position where they I
19:12
I I feel like they're digging themselves a deeper grave by the day um through their inaction and it
19:20
will cost them dearly this election So So tell us about the Labor Party What is it about uh
Why Labour party reserved on Palestine?
19:27
the current leadership of the Labor Party and the way it functions in in this sort of international
19:32
system what is it about the Labor Party and why it's so um reticent to stand up for Palestinian
19:39
rights what what is you know has the Labor Party gone through a very similar transformation there
19:46
in Australia as as it has here and um you know yeah just explain make a case against the Labour
19:54
Party for me please Upon Anthony Albanesey's election he is a member of the left faction of
20:02
the Labour Party He's one of the most progressive prime ministers Australia's ever seen He when I
20:11
say progressive I mean looking at his track record you would say he's super progressive Um so winning
20:18
the 2022 election I think there was this sense of hope that every Australian out there had invested
20:27
and had voted and wanted to see change After 9 years of a coalition government they were like
20:33
"Finally we are going to fix the broken systems." whether it's immigration whether it's healthare
20:39
whether it's public sector social services we will finally fix all the broken systems
20:46
um that that the coalition has you know completely just just brushed aside You have the first year
20:54
you know honeymoon that it's usually called the honeymoon phase for a government First year smooth
21:01
sailing It was great And it wasn't until I guess October 23 that Australia as a whole was shocked
21:10
to see Anthony Albanesei respond to the way he did It was as if he was not utilizing his agency as a
21:22
prime minister who we've seen footage of chanting at Palestinian rallies grabbing the megaphone and
21:31
be you know standing in solidarity like he's a union guy through and through He's a human
21:37
rights guy through and through But then come October 23 and he's It's like as if he's got
21:47
a different script or or or uh talking points that are shoved in his face and he's forced to
21:53
say it Like it was it was unfathomable People were just not making that connection saying why why is
22:00
he behaving this way what what's going on and it was a shock to me as well personally being part of
22:06
the caucus to be like surely there's something I'm missing Like I was gaslighting myself and
22:12
I'm sure there are people out there gaslighting themselves saying maybe there's something I don't know about this prime minister Maybe there's something happening behind closed doors that
22:22
he's unable to tell us about and so you know his hands are tied or lips are sealed And it was like
22:30
I think the turning point was when Zomi Franklin one of our own Australian aid workers was killed
22:37
that I begged Penny and I was like "Look this is our opportunity I hate to put it this way but this
22:43
is our opportunity to come out and say Israel this this is a red line you've crossed mate Yes you
22:49
can be our friend but this is a red line you've crossed and and we're going to call you out for it
22:54
and we're not going to just ask you to investigate yourself." That's another bizarre thing that I
22:59
found Instead of finding an independent arbitrator to really look into this matter you just ask the
23:08
perpetrator to investigate into themselves and their own war crimes Like that's absurd But it
23:17
it was it was insane to see that development No matter how many times rank and file members wrote
23:25
to the prime minister and all Labour senators and MPs begging for us to do something begging for us
23:32
to take a stronger stance Um it it felt like they all fell on deaf ears Nobody was taking
23:39
them seriously Um the movement became stronger when people started protesting outside offices
23:47
um I would accept the delegations and invite them inside my office for a cup of tea and I'd listen
23:52
and I'd say look I may not be able to alleviate and make promises and and you know be able to
24:00
end all this but what I can promise to do is carry your voices to cra my team know let the
24:08
caucus know um and and press that this is this is important and and we need to do something about
24:17
Um whereas my other colleagues would just close their doors and not allow these people to come
24:24
in despite my attempts to just message our group chat saying "Guys just let them in They
24:30
just want to be heard Just allow them to come in share their stories." Um because it was it was
24:38
heartbreaking to hear constituents sit opposite me and say I went to a mobile office of one of
24:48
your labor colleagues and I told him that I've lost 40 members of my family in Gaza Like they
24:56
they were killed in an Israeli missile attack or air strike And she's like that MP would turn
25:06
around and say "Do you live in my constituency?" It's like if she had said "My dog just died," or
25:17
"My dog got run over," you'd at least have the courtesy to say "I'm so sorry for your loss."
25:23
But the fact that it's it's to do with Palestine Palestinian blood and it's they
25:29
go in this autopilot mode where it's like I'm just going to repeat what I am told to repeat
25:36
with no empathy with no human decency and courtesy um to at least acknowledge the pain and suffering
25:45
um of the communities here And that's that's where the word social cohesion is such a
25:52
trigger word for everybody especially for the pro Palestinian movement because that's been used by
25:58
the government the Labor Party and all the MPs to say just be quiet Just just it's all right
26:04
You are you raising your voice and highlighting all the inequities and the double standards is
26:12
impacting our social cohesion The social fabric of this society is being disintegrated with you
26:20
speaking your truth So please be quiet Don't say anything And people started seeing through that
26:27
And it it's it's been so empowering and uplifting for people like myself where I felt ostracized I
26:36
felt like there was just no end to this and to see just the grassroots community everyday Australians
26:44
joining the movement and saying enough is enough Like we're not going to allow the government to use our taxpayer dollars to fund a genocide um and and kill innocent people left right and center
26:57
It's been the overdue awakening that Australia needed Um and it's sad that it came at such a high
27:06
price Um but I've never seen the community the broader grassroots movement so activated Um and
27:18
you know the whole idea is to keep this act this this momentum past 3d of May after our election
27:26
to make sure they just it doesn't just stop there um whether it's students demanding more from their
27:34
universities or whether it's people attending protests and rallies whether it's writing to their MPs um and whether it's you know putting their hand up for local council state elections
27:46
um and the 2028 federal election I have come across a number of um UK-based Labor MPs
Muslim politicians staying in Labour
27:55
um especially during the time of the election who were I'm sure facing a very similar dilemma
28:01
to yours Uh but very many of them probably most of them remained pretty wedded to the Labor Party and
28:07
and wedded to the whips and they would say to me that um we know that our party has fallen short
28:14
on the genocide or on on Palestine Uh but we can as labor politicians as politicians that may form
28:23
be part of the next government or at least members of the party that forms the next government we may
28:29
be able to do some good uh for our community Uh if we're outside of the of the party process outside
28:36
of the political party the two-party system we're not going to be able to do any good And
28:41
so they're weighing up I suppose the the amount they can do for Palestine versus what they can do for the community Um I mean how do you assess that that weighing up that balance in that some of them
28:53
or that excuse may maybe that some of them put forward i think it's a very weak excuse Um it's
28:59
them washing their hands off the responsibility as an elected official When you're put in that
29:06
position you're there to serve the people not your party you're there to serve the constituency that
29:12
got you there even if it was under your party's banner Um there is real good that comes out of the
29:20
independence movement And if independents are intelligent and smart after the election they
29:26
would try to vote on block on many things When you're negotiating and you hold the balance of
29:32
power you actually can do a lot of good for the community um where you can put asks I'll give
29:39
you an example Um and this this would probably resonate to a lot of the Labor people whether in the UK or here in Australia Um when I had a go at Pauline Hansen uh in the chamber last year um
29:54
Lydia Thor got suspended as a result of ripping piece of paper and and throwing it at Pauline So
30:02
Lydia was suspended and therefore the government needed one extra vote They needed one extra vote
30:08
uh to for the next day which was the last day of sitting before our summer break And it was
30:15
the first time that the prime minister's office called me in after I had left the party in July So
30:21
um I was quite surprised I was like oh okay this is unheard of So I walk into his office with my
30:26
chief of staff who's a white old bloke in his 60s and I was sat opposite the prime minister
30:35
but he did not make any eye contact with me um at all whatsoever Um and it was as if he was
30:43
just talking to Glenn my chief of staff the whole time Um and essentially they needed our support to
30:50
guillotine 40 bills in one day which means cutting out debating time Now in the Senate you need to
30:59
get majority of the votes to be able to pass a motion like that and they needed my vote because
31:06
Lydia Thorp was suspended Um and so the prime minister offered the two additional staff that
31:14
every other crossbencher gets at the discretion of the prime minister Um and he was like well I'll give you your two additional staff Um and I was like with all due respect Prime Minister you
31:25
cannot firstly hold that against my head Like I've I've got a right to have those staff I know it's
31:31
at your discretion but it's not a negotiating chip Secondly I've managed five months without
31:38
those two staff Like I can manage another few more And thirdly I was like get rid of the migration
31:46
amendment bills These are draconian bills where you are subjecting thousands of genuine refugees
31:52
and asylum seekers to not only continue their lives in limbo but potentially have them deported
32:00
to a third country um because Australia just you know can't house them anymore Um and I was like
32:09
that's just inhumane Like we have a international humanitarian obligation to ensure that these
32:17
asylum seekers who rocked up on our shores are protected and safe And he was like "Oh no it's
32:22
only going to impact a few hundreds." And I was like we've heard from peak body organizations
32:29
and experts that this is going to have broad ramifications across the board to to thousands
32:35
of people And so I was like you know I can't if you get rid of that then we have a deal And he was
32:41
like no I have a deal with the Liberals who are supporting the these three immigration migration
32:49
amendment bills Um and I was like you're the prime minister you can make it happen you know you can
32:55
just get rid of it Like um and today he was like "No I can't do it." And I was like "Fine then no
33:01
deal." And I walked out but Glenn stay like Glenn was following me back when the prime minister
33:08
pulled him aside and said "You're the adult in the room Go convince her." Like it's absolutely
33:15
not only misogynistic but the way he is so out of touch with his own plat party platform Like I had
33:27
to sit there opposite him to be like this isn't what your members want This isn't what your rank
33:32
and file members asked for when they elected you Like how have you totally forgotten about them
33:40
um but it's it's it's insane to see that labor politicians whether here in Australia or the UK
33:49
try to use the same line of like or reasoning line of reasoning to say there's more benefit
33:58
or there's there's a better opportunity for us to serve our community by being in the Labor Party
34:05
than being outside like if I had an additional person voting that day um the prime minister
34:13
would have done whatever he could um to agree come to that agreement and get rid of those migration
34:22
amendment bills Um but because he could then go to David PCO and try to convince him to get his vote
34:32
you know he sort of didn't really put much weight But if David and I had you know come together and
34:40
voted as a block and say you know what it's both of us or none of us Um then we would have achieved
34:50
some solid outcomes Uh but again it requires crossbench senators and MPs to be politically
34:59
savvy and to see the long-term vision to not just think about their political longevity and
35:04
expediency but actually what's the greater goal here So if I understand the the political system
Unity of independents?
35:11
uh right I mean you've got a system there which uh where for the last few election cycles there have
35:18
been either very very slim majority governments or minority governments that require coalitions or
35:24
some form of agreement with crossbenches in order for government to undertake its business Um and so
35:31
the argument is that in this coming election the more the Australian public vote in uh non uh uh
35:38
candidates from uh parties and independents beyond the two main parties the more ability there is for
35:46
the general Australian citizenry to to have an impact on accounting uh the political parties but
35:53
also making u you know the right decisions when it comes to things like migration and Palestine and
35:59
and social issues that you you you campaign for Um so your argument is that there needs to be a
36:06
tapestry of of of candidates that come together post election and work as one block I mean how
36:13
likely is that i've seen in in some instances here in the UK when we've had uh when we had this you
36:20
know the sort of rainbow tapestry of of different parties and independents it it's sometimes
36:26
it's very difficult to them together and to work together I mean is there work taking place to make
36:31
sure those independents in Sydney and elsewhere are going to actually work under one you know
36:37
one general umbrella i think for MPs and senators to work in parallels is a possibility but getting
36:47
senators in the crossbench to work together may be challenging because again everyone has their
36:53
vested interests Um but I think crosschamber we can definitely get some good done um and
37:01
be able to work in parallels Um I know that our democracy is fairly young uh but we can strengthen
37:11
it by having the variety uh of independents and minor parties representing Australians because
37:18
that way they can actually hold them to account um the fact that major parties want say Labor
37:24
senators from Western Australia to vote the same way as Labour senators in Victoria where these
37:30
two states are completely different worlds apart different priorities different demographics um it
37:38
it's just it doesn't make sense that both those senators instead of representing their states
37:44
they're representing the party um and I think it needs to come down to genuine true representation
37:51
uh whether it's in the House of Reps or in the Senate um for voters to actually know all right we
38:00
we lent this um lower house MP who's independent our vote in the 2025 election If we see that over
38:10
the next three years they have not represented us or haven't done a good good enough job by 2028 you
38:16
can take that vote off them and give it to someone else like the power lies with voters with everyday
38:22
Australians And that's what we've had to drive home You know the major parties are two sides of
38:29
the same coin You know just the way we don't like our woollies and coolest duopoly the supermarkets
38:37
that you know um price gouge and and really do consumers dirty Um we're starting to see that
38:48
replicated in our political system with the major parties Labour and Liberal They only have each
38:53
other's backs Um I mean the most recent electoral reforms indicated that they only care about
39:00
themselves There's a um there's something called a resettlement allowance where an MP or a senator
39:09
that get kicked out of their position right like um if you think that your lower house MP has not
39:16
represented you and you kick them out they will be secured with a fat payout of $120,000 with three
39:26
return flights to CRA And those flights to CRA is for them to buddy up uh cozy up to their buddies
39:34
and ask them to line up their next gig you know Um and the $120,000 when there's a cost of living
39:42
crisis and the government keeps saying "We don't have enough money to alleviate your stresses but we have enough money to clearly keep our pockets lined up full of cash." Um it it's just like
39:56
where are the priorities um and I put a motion in the Senate to say "Let's get rid of this rule."
40:03
The Labour Party the Liberals and Pauline Hansen's One Nation voted to keep that They voted against
40:11
my amendment and they were like "No we're going to keep that um resettlement allowance so that
40:17
you know it continues benefiting when when we lose our seat." So it's like at the end of the
40:22
day you're not there to serve your people you know when your social services are crumbling or your
40:31
um job seeker payments are literally increased by a dollar or two per week and here you are
40:39
giving yourself massive pay rises and and uh resettlement allowances like it's our
40:47
our leadership is absolutely warped and we need to change that It's a very currently it's a very
40:55
bottom down appro uh top down approach where it's we up on top will tell you how to live your life
41:01
down bottom whereas it's supposed to be those on the ground who are struggling and suffering
41:07
need to be able to contribute to the policies that will hopefully have a real impact on their lives
Advice to Muslim voters
41:14
So we have elections coming up Um as I said 25 days to to election day Um what advice are you
41:22
giving to conscientious voters to Muslim voters pro Palestine voters uh the electoral system
41:30
is quite complex ini in in in Australia and um uh there's a preferential system where they've
41:35
got to rate candidates So uh what guidance is issued to the ordinary voter that shares your
41:43
uh your politics um so that they can vote in a conscientious way Look I don't know every
41:49
seat out there but all I know is that when it comes to the lower house candidates whether it's
41:56
Greens or independents if you don't have a strong independent voice in your electorate go next best
42:03
to the Greens Um and if you don't have them then fine If you have to you'll vote for Labor Um but
42:12
in the upper house which is the Senate you've got a real opportunity to help us as Australia's voice
42:19
hold the government to account Um a party that wants to make a difference Yes when you but it's
42:28
the fact that we have come about at a time when both the major parties have let voters down Um
42:37
this is our real opportunity to make a difference to hold the government of the day to account Um so
42:44
in the upper house you've got a long ballot paper um and you'll have all the parties names on it
42:51
Um you will need to vote one to six Again it's it's super simple when you see all the parties
42:59
names and little boxes on top Um but our advice is to help us keep them to account You can vote
43:07
for Australia's voice then vote for other minor parties before you even reach the major parties
43:14
Um they the major parties have had it too good for too long and they clearly haven't
43:20
understood through the rallies through the encampments through the email mass email
43:27
campaigns um the only way they will really understand how massively they've messed up
43:36
um in being complicit in this genocide but also not alleviating any of Australians stresses when
43:44
it comes to the housing crisis or the cost of living crisis um in order for them to get the
43:51
message they need to experience electoral loss and that electoral loss is going to take place
43:57
on 3rd of May inshallah when they realize that sitting on the wrong side of history is going to
44:03
cost them and this is how it's going to cost them rather than they having rather than continuing on
44:12
this trajectory of the community will forgive and forget you know um and re resorting back to their
44:20
old ways Um this is a real opportunity and I have faith that our Australian population has really
44:27
woken up and they want to see that change They want to see that difference made on 3rd of May
44:33
So inshallah we can we can chat afterwards to see what the outcomes were Um but nonetheless even if
44:41
the idea is even if we don't unseat necessarily unseat labor strongholds we will marginalize them
44:55
enough for them to get the message This time we've marginalized you Next time we're coming for you Um
45:02
and that goes to both Labour and the Liberals but just because Labour was in government and
45:08
the genocide took place under their noses and they didn't do anything about it Uh one final question
Was it worth it?
45:14
for you Senator Fatima Payment Um you've uh I know this past year year and a half has has had a uh a
45:22
toll on you personally and um you the media has vilified you They've called you Hamas supporter
45:28
and uh and and someone who's who's guided by God and and and the rest of it you know you've had
45:34
um many members of the right attack you for uh for your your stance on on Palestine suggesting
45:42
that you're not working for Australia's interests and and you're working for uh for for for foreign
45:48
for foreigners and um and and you know you you've had uh it's it's been a very stressful time I can
45:55
imagine Uh I suppose my my question for you was uh is that and and of course um any uh any um
46:04
aspirations you may have had for uh for government for for a ministerial post uh to in to to advance
46:12
your careers probably dare I say it shut down I mean you know your the two party system will not
46:19
uh give you access to that level of government ever again I mean was it worth it Fatima it
46:24
definitely was worth it I never had ambitions of becoming a minister I'm not a career politician I
46:31
was there in my capacity to serve Uh and I've always prayed that God uses me as a vessel to
46:39
promote goodness uh wherever I go Um so it's never felt like I've been at a loss Um it has been tough
46:50
I know that it would have been a lot easier like politically and career-wise for me to just shut
46:57
up do as I'm told and blend into the background of the Labor Party It's a lot tougher to go off
47:04
on your own establish a party from scratch all the infrastructure all the stresses of having to
47:11
run candidates um and have that give that option to every Australian nationwide in various states
47:20
to be able to vote for someone different Um so it is a lot of work but you know as we believe Allah
47:30
never burdens us burdens a soul more than it can bear And so I'm a firm believer that everything
47:37
happens for a reason And um I I'm just thankful that you know every step I've taken I've I've done
47:47
it with full autonomy and agency and with a clear conscience Um like I feel bad for or rather I feel
47:57
sorry for my colleagues or former colleagues in the Labor Party who have to live with that guilt
48:05
um of not doing enough of not truly representing their constituency It's going to be tough but I
48:12
know that through the service and through the work I'm doing if I'm able to shift even a percentage
48:21
uh of people's minds um and and shed light on the Islamophobia we experience Um in fact we've
48:30
been experiencing it on a daily basis Uh whether it's human feces that are sent in packages into
48:38
the office or getting death threats uh people mentioning various types of guns and how they're
48:47
going to use that to assassinate me Um you know that you're doing something right when this is
48:54
how much commotion uh is spread based off my mere existence Um but yeah I I just pray and hope that
49:06
the the grassroots movement does not lose momentum Um and that we continue looking at the long-term
49:12
vision of strengthening and establishing uh a base where we can have influence on our politicians
49:20
not just access Um in fact I've said this to many people uh inside or outside of our Muslim
49:27
community saying that don't be fooled by being able to call a minister or an MP and thinking
49:34
you've got influence Influence comes when people people's actions reflect your wishes and demands
49:43
Um and these politicians are held truly to account Um so I I think there is a real opportunity It's
49:50
about harnessing it uh growing and and continuing to empower people Um and yeah inshallah we we put
49:59
our effort in and leave the rest to Allah because the outcome lies with him Senator Fatima thank you
50:06
so much for your time May Allah keep you safe and uh achieve the result that we're all wishing for
50:12
in in this coming election Inshallah Inshallah When the genocide in Gaza began I vowed we would
Become a member
50:19
never let those responsible get away with this Silence was complicity in a world that wants us
50:26
to remain flaccid A world that wants us to be concerned more about our immediate lives and
50:31
interests The system buys our souls in return for acquiescence with their empire building project
50:40
We at the thinking Muslim set about changing the narrative and in the process with Allah's baraka
50:46
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50:53
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51:00
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